Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

algorithmichiring.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 93 posts

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#41

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #10
dhosek wrote: post #3

This is just one of many reasons why my current job is likely to be my last. I feel like so much of modern life is just irredeemably broken right now.

Could join those in the slow life, invest in passive revenue streams, and keep cash burn rates minimal. You will be fine avoiding debt-based indentured 1980 metropolitan cultures. Learn to play a cheap instrument, garden vegetables, paint miniatures, volunteer at pet shelters, or travel to odd destinations. Play the long game, and remember to have fun. You owe corporate nothing outside what they paid for... and not a…

> invest in passive revenue streams

Sounds great. So how exactly do you get started with that, then?

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#42

Post by arethuza »

ddejohn wrote: post #14
mrkeen wrote: post #13

This is keeping me out of work at the moment. The usual flow is that I have a great HR interview, then I'm assigned an online intelligence (what dots should be in the next box) test and a personality test, and then the company wants nothing to do with me. They manage to screen me out before I have the opportunity to talk about anything computing related . (The old horror-stories of 'I couldn't reverse a BST on a whit…

I am miserably bad at soft-skills interviews and never get past this round. Been over a year since I've had somebody actually try to assess my technical competency in any real capacity. I'm also getting maybe 1 INITIAL interview every 3 months right now because of this AI screening stuff and I just haven't felt like re-writing my resume to game them.

One thing I discovered years ago was that even if you are pretty good at soft-skills type stuff and also pretty good at technical stuff what I couldn't do is context switch between an hour or so of doing "soft" stuff to a technical question - even though it was a trivial question. I lost a CTO position over that - mind you I think they went out of business a couple of years later...

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#44

Post by pjc50 »

mrkeen wrote: post #13

This is keeping me out of work at the moment. The usual flow is that I have a great HR interview, then I'm assigned an online intelligence (what dots should be in the next box) test and a personality test, and then the company wants nothing to do with me. They manage to screen me out before I have the opportunity to talk about anything computing related . (The old horror-stories of 'I couldn't reverse a BST on a whit…

I suspect the counfounding factor of hundreds of other applicants makes it hard to tell whether you're specifically being discriminated against or just one of the 999 people who didn't get the job.

(There are some extreme measures that you can try like applying under a different name, although that then forces some awkwardness later on when you actually need your government name for tax and bank information)

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#45

Post by tapland »

mrkeen wrote: post #13

This is keeping me out of work at the moment. The usual flow is that I have a great HR interview, then I'm assigned an online intelligence (what dots should be in the next box) test and a personality test, and then the company wants nothing to do with me. They manage to screen me out before I have the opportunity to talk about anything computing related . (The old horror-stories of 'I couldn't reverse a BST on a whit…

I passed a series of those and since I remembered the questions from a relatives autism diagnosis testing I asked what they do since they are effectively filtering for things like that.

HR rep said those applicants should probably go see a shrink instead (!!???) and that was the end of me interviewing there.

The testing needs to end. The people using these tools don't know how they work, what they are testing and what blanket denials of personality types really means.

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#46

Post by torben-friis »

woadwarrior01 wrote: post #33
mrkeen wrote: post #13

This is keeping me out of work at the moment. The usual flow is that I have a great HR interview, then I'm assigned an online intelligence (what dots should be in the next box) test and a personality test, and then the company wants nothing to do with me. They manage to screen me out before I have the opportunity to talk about anything computing related . (The old horror-stories of 'I couldn't reverse a BST on a whit…

I don't have a dog in the race, also I'm not based in the US, but aren't intelligence tests for hiring illegal in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co .

Anecdotally, I've only seen them done in northern European companies, but every northern European company I've interviewed for had them. It seems to be a regional-ish thing.

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#47

Post by geraneum »

Eridrus wrote: post #4

It seems like this is measuring algorithms against the disparate impact standard of all demographic groups needing to have the same aggregate results. Which is extra weird because the samples to this are applications, not humans, so this is subject to bias in how people apply to these positions. So if a demographic group is more likely to apply to some jobs they are not qualified for, this paper would say they are be…

> if a demographic group is more likely to apply to some jobs they are not qualified for

Can you expand on this? How is a whole demographic group not qualified for jobs on wide spectrum? Is this about certain industries? Certain jobs? Certain groups?

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#48

Post by watwut »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #7
jmyeet wrote: post #2

This sort of thing needs to be illegal. We saw a similar thing wtih RealPage. So many corporate landlords use it that it essentially becomes anticompetitive price-fixing. I've heard a claim that an issue with these ATS AI Systems is that your CV gets scored and that score is cached for some period from 3 to 12 months. So any application with a completely different company with your name will just yield the exact same…

Recruitment and hiring has been a mess for decades, though, especially in tech. It's like all the leetcode bullshit. We know that is not a valid measurement for actual performance in a dev job, but that doesn't stop managers from using it. What they need is a number, a rating, on how much of a fit each candidate is, through some process that can be described as objective and fair. The algorithms provide that. If we m…

From what I seen, the leetcode is self reproducing dysfunction. There is whole subculture that believes being good at leetcode like tests and puzzles makes you inherently superior in all aspects, because you are smart. After all, they were good at leetcode like tests and are superior and smart. It is people who grew up in that subculture becoming managers recreating the culture they grew up in.

That is why the "not a valid measurement for actual performance in a dev job" thing does not matter. Too many people are emotionally invested in this being important measure. Their and their friends self worth is attached to it.

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#49

Post by acidhousemcnab »

mrkeen wrote: post #13

This is keeping me out of work at the moment. The usual flow is that I have a great HR interview, then I'm assigned an online intelligence (what dots should be in the next box) test and a personality test, and then the company wants nothing to do with me. They manage to screen me out before I have the opportunity to talk about anything computing related . (The old horror-stories of 'I couldn't reverse a BST on a whit…

Time and motion study neurodivergent slave class optimisation.

Re: Algorithmic Monocultures in Hiring

#50

Post by Joel_Mckay »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #41
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could join those in the slow life, invest in passive revenue streams, and keep cash burn rates minimal. You will be fine avoiding debt-based indentured 1980 metropolitan cultures. Learn to play a cheap instrument, garden vegetables, paint miniatures, volunteer at pet shelters, or travel to odd destinations. Play the long game, and remember to have fun. You owe corporate nothing outside what they paid for... and not a…

> invest in passive revenue streams Sounds great. So how exactly do you get started with that, then?

Highly dependent on ones specific financial situation, risk-tolerance, and employment trajectory.

While not a personal preference, most acquire revenue properties as they build equity over time. Assets secure lower loan rates, qualify mortgage fixed-payment schedules on investments, and require good management-companies to handle leases.

Generally, mitigating tax exposures by investing in small businesses is still popular. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't... but it is money people will lose anyway if they do nothing. Specifically, my first business investment was a few vending machine locations as a teenager, after a summer dropping hardwood floors.

Everyone starts somewhere, but blindly cloning what others do is usually unwise. ymmv =3

Post reply on HN