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Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

timesofsandiego.com

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Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#41

Post by loteck »

variety8675 wrote: post #2

I'm no fan of flock, but I dislike how these articles are blaming the technology when the real issue is the police not bothering to check the information they're given

We blame the technology because police misusing their powers is a tale as old as police, is demonstrably not fixable, and this technology is at fault for aggressively selling itself to police to give them these powers that we all know will be misused. Flock absolutely bears significant responsibility for creating the technology and conditions for this unjust behavior to exist, and continuing to advocate against those pushing back on it by trying to brand them as terrorists.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#42

Post by loteck »

SoftTalker wrote: post #3
variety8675 wrote: post #2

I'm no fan of flock, but I dislike how these articles are blaming the technology when the real issue is the police not bothering to check the information they're given

Yeah this reads like the cops simply didn't properly identify the vehicle. If anything, the Flock camera photo proves he was miles away.

They simply didn't properly identify the vehicle because Flock's ALPR gave them the pass. The innocent person would not have needed "photo proof" of his distant location if the ALPR didn't exist in the first place. Then he would not have been forced to spend a month of his life in jail.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#43

Post by cwmoore »

wombatpm wrote: post #21
garyfirestorm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But flock hit is the entire reason for the cops to go arrest them. And you’re right if they did careful assessment of other flock camera data, even the data of this particular flock camera they would have known this car was 5 miles away 23 seconds later. The whole point being misusing/abusing flock data to wrongly jail people and that is precisely what happened here. Flock is the center of this story.

Police would just argue that the second datapoint was wrong.

Obviously so, maybe society should hire criminals to catch the police.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#44

Post by cwmoore »

pixl97 wrote: post #23
bryan0 wrote: post #7

> Their tort claim notes that the path the men took to the cigar lounge passed by several other Flock cameras, which could have corroborated their story, as well as the location data on their cell phones. It seems like if the police actually looked at the Flock data it would have exonerated them?

Quite often the cops job is to find someone close enough and then toss them into the jaws of the criminal justice system. We like to say "innocent until proven guilty", but you goddammed better be ready to prove yourself innocent unless you want to find yourself imprisoned.

Our justification systems are already overburdened with people lacking plausible alibis.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#45

Post by pixl97 »

OutOfHere wrote: post #30
pixl97 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they can't show it to the police in the US?

Every police officer with access to the system must ideally have to undergo mandatory annual training and testing in using it to protect the rights of innocents. If they don't pass the testing, they ideally should not be granted access. Flock should be held accountable for ensuring adequate protections exist to prevent misuse.

It's kinda funny that all our personal data leaks out of companies all the time and little to nothing happens to them, and now you're thinking Flock is going to be held accountable?!

We should have laws against collecting this in the first place.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#46

Post by rasz »

bryan0 wrote: post #7

> Their tort claim notes that the path the men took to the cigar lounge passed by several other Flock cameras, which could have corroborated their story, as well as the location data on their cell phones. It seems like if the police actually looked at the Flock data it would have exonerated them?

Cue recent video of a cop giving armless woman ticket for holding a cellphone.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#47

Post by snerbles »

Wingy wrote: post #25
bhickey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [T]hey would have known this car was 5 miles away 23 seconds later. Tack on a reckless driving charge and a speeding ticket.

782.6mph is way too fast.

As long as the vehicle traveling above Mach 1 remains a ground vehicle, the FAA won't get involved.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#48

Post by garyfirestorm »

wombatpm wrote: post #21
garyfirestorm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But flock hit is the entire reason for the cops to go arrest them. And you’re right if they did careful assessment of other flock camera data, even the data of this particular flock camera they would have known this car was 5 miles away 23 seconds later. The whole point being misusing/abusing flock data to wrongly jail people and that is precisely what happened here. Flock is the center of this story.

Police would just argue that the second datapoint was wrong.

Schrodinger's flock - the 'hit' helped us catch the criminals and the hit is wrong. but we are going ahead with prosecution nonetheless.

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#49

Post by OutOfHere »

pixl97 wrote: post #45
OutOfHere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every police officer with access to the system must ideally have to undergo mandatory annual training and testing in using it to protect the rights of innocents. If they don't pass the testing, they ideally should not be granted access. Flock should be held accountable for ensuring adequate protections exist to prevent misuse.

It's kinda funny that all our personal data leaks out of companies all the time and little to nothing happens to them, and now you're thinking Flock is going to be held accountable?! We should have laws against collecting this in the first place.

What do you mean nothing happens to them?:

https://news.google.com/search?q=location%20data%20lawsuit%2...

Re: Flock license plate reader wrongly linked a San Diego man to a violent crime

#50

Post by turtlesdown11 »

tptacek wrote: post #40
turtlesdown11 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right, its the cops who decide "criminal culpability" all Flock did was lead them to the wrong person...poor innocent Flock

It didn't lead SDPD to any person at all. It led them to a red Alfa Romeo with tinted windows. Flock doesn't do facial recognition. It's a real-time search engine for cars on video feeds.

as I posted elsewhere, a tool that requires perfect human oversight to avoid harming innocent people is a problem
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