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Azure Linux Desktop

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Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if different sectors worked like that. To go to a restaurant, each customer brings their own private chef to let loose in the kitchen. Wouldn't it make more sense for OS makers to "tell Claude" to make a user friendly GUI for their terminal commands?

That's what KDE (and gnome, to a lesser extent) have been trying to do for a long while. The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable. To expand on your analogy, it’s like running a restaurant that only uses automated vending machines to serve foo…

> The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable.

But is that an issue? Macs have had this solved for almost half a century: You expose things in the GUI that normal people need, not everything. For hackers, they can still go to the command line to hack.

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#43
post #40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a problem as long one understands the difference between UNIX and GNU/Linux. For me Linux had been mostly the UNIX that we have back at home, while most work was done in Solaris, HP-UX, Aix, DG/UX. I am not attached to Linux specifically.

The thing is, I'm not talking about POSIX or CLI; I'm strictly speaking about the desktop GUI. macOS keeps going into a direction which is actively preventing being efficient with it, all the while making weird net-negative decisions about looks for reasons which can only be explained by UI and UX designers trying to sell themselves as useful internally. I used to be an early adopter, now I'm waiting for the enterpri…

the macOS desktop GUI really is...not great. I tolerate it only for the hardware, and I'm only able to tolerate thanks to a bunch of little utility apps, and even there's some functionality that's not even possible (like setting a window to be always on top).

Finder's only saving grace is miller columns, it sucks in nearly every other way.

Windows+PowerToys is far more enjoyable and productive to use, as is basically any Linux DE.

macOS is fine if your usage involves one or two apps, all each with only one active window. The moment your work involves multiple widows of the same app (say 3 browser windows, a bunch of open Excel docs, multiple terminals) the entire apps are separate from their windows paradigm starts to break down. On Windows being able to alt+tab through browser tabs along with the rest of your open windows is great.

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those things are true in different ways. Purpose built for azure probably means integration with azure meta data APIs and kernel specific tweaks for the hardware. It could also be general purpose for what you can run on it. Basically it's a curated distro. Not complicated or anything different from what AWS and GCE are doing.

> It could also be general purpose for what you can run on it. Yeah of course, it's a Linux distribution. But feels like a marketing push when multiple people suddenly go "oh yeah Microsoft building a general purpose Linux distribution" when that's not what's happening. So what if it isn't general purpose and built purposefully for Azure? It doesn't remove anything, just being more accurate with how it's being market…

> Yeah of course, it's a Linux distribution.

That is not a given. There are Linux distributions that run anywhere but are not general-purpose. For example, the various "immutable" Linux distros that exist solely to be used as Kubernetes nodes to host containers.

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#45
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not official. Azure Linux 4.0 is the next version of Azure Linux (duh), and WSL base distro.

is it replacing CBL-Mariner as the utility distro for WSL?

Yes, Azure Linux 4 is the evolution of CBL Mariner.

Search for Linux talks on Microsoft Developer channel, related to BUILD 2026.

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what KDE (and gnome, to a lesser extent) have been trying to do for a long while. The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable. To expand on your analogy, it’s like running a restaurant that only uses automated vending machines to serve foo…

> The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable. But is that an issue? Macs have had this solved for almost half a century: You expose things in the GUI that normal people need, not everything. For hackers, they can still go to the command line to…

> > The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable. > > But is that an issue? Macs have had this solved for almost half a century: You expose things in the GUI that normal people need, not everything. For hackers, they can still go to the command line to hack.

Good point. I'd say, Linux has inherent complexity across multiple dimensions (less hardware integration, multiple stacks (is it running systemd-networkd ? Or maybe dns

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what KDE (and gnome, to a lesser extent) have been trying to do for a long while. The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable. To expand on your analogy, it’s like running a restaurant that only uses automated vending machines to serve foo…

> The fundamental issue is that a GUI is a static abstraction over a CLI that allows for millions of potential combinations. You can only expose so many options in a menu before the interface becomes completely unusable. But is that an issue? Macs have had this solved for almost half a century: You expose things in the GUI that normal people need, not everything. For hackers, they can still go to the command line to…

macOS also exposes more advanced things through the GUI but not by default. Its largely undiscoverable, but holding option before clicking something generally offers more options (e.g., hold option and click wifi in the menu bar to get all the detailed connection information).

I like that method, keeps the default GUI clean but still offers GUI options for most things if you know where to look.

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you create a VM on these cloud platforms the categories are like "general purpose, high memory, high cpu, high gpu" and there's various types of VMs to select from. They are simply using the terminology that DevOps folks use when discussing instance types. General purpose just means it's not tuned to favor anything in particular. Don't overthink it. You are not the audience.

> General purpose just means it's not tuned to favor anything in particular Agreed, that's why it doesn't make sense to call this "general purpose", since it's specifically tuned in favor of Azure: > Azure Linux was built with that principle in mind: a single, Microsoft-supported Linux foundation designed to work across every Azure compute surface [...] with a predictable update cadence designed around Azure infrastr…

I think the GP used the word "tuned" incorrectly / to make the wrong point here.

A general-purpose OS is one to which you can build a stack on top of it for any use-case you can think of, and it will cope with whatever stack you lay on it about equally well, because it hasn't been forced into a particular shape where it's much better at some things but much worse at other things. A "jack of all trades, master of none" OS.

Microsoft would call all consumer and server editions of Windows "general-purpose OSes." But Windows Datacenter Edition and Windows IoT Core would be non-general-purpose OSes — the former only exists to run hypervisors/SANs, and it doesn't support "stripping off" that layer, so if you used it for anything else, that layer would always be there, bloating things up; and the latter only exists to run on embedded devices, and it doesn't support "adding back" the extra frameworks and services regular Windows has, that would be required to use it for "more" than embedded use-cases.

An OS being "tuned" for a particular substrate (what the OS is good at running on), meanwhile, has nothing to do with the OS's use-case (what can be run well on the OS.)

An analogy: each mobile OEM's spin of Android only works on that OEM's own phones, because that OEM's phones have the required hardware wired to the right SoC pins, and the Android spin ships with a BSP that defines a device tree that matches that expected wiring. Thus, those OEM Android spins are "tuned for" those phones.

But in the end, they're all just Android phones, and they can all do the same things. All of these Android spins are "general-purpose OSes." They're all made to enable you to put any Android software you like on top of them, and run it just fine. (Contrast Android spins made by industrial vendors specifically for automotive or kiosk use-cases, where a given car company or kiosk manufacturer then produces a hardware-customized-and-tuned spin of that already-appliance-purposed spin. You wouldn't use a car-infotainment Android upstream for other use-cases; you'd have to undo all the car-infotainment stuff.)

Azure Linux is exactly like a phone-OEM "tuning" of Android (and unlike a vertical-specific Android spin.) Azure Linux is also like, for another example, the vendor-specific Linux "distros" [really, tunings] that ship as (usually binary-only) images for various Single-Board Computers.

In all three cases, a "tuned" fork of an OS is still intended to run anything a user might want to run on the platform the "tuned" fork was forked off of. It exposes a general-purpose surface to the developer — just one that happens to do some of the general-purpose things you ask it to do, more performantly than a non-"tuned" OS would on the same hardware/substrate.

And, in all three cases, the "tuned" fork accomplishes that by relying on device-specific knowledge and capabilities (i.e. drivers, device-tree entries, kernel patches, etc) that have been burned into the "tuned" fork rather than upstreamed. There's still a HAL between you and that stuff; your workload doesn't need to know the "tuned" fork has been tuned. It just benefits automatically, from the OS having a deeper understanding of the hardware/substrate.

Re: Azure Linux Desktop

#50
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use bubblewrap inside Ubuntu inside WSL. https://github.com/nix-tools/bubblebox

I had issues with bubblewrap inside the container and creating namespaces. Need to dig into a bit further.

Are you saying you're having problems with bubblewrap in general, or specifically with bubblebox that I linked to?

Feel free to submit bug reports. I actively use it on NixOS, Ubuntu WSL and nix-darwin.

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