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Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#41

Post by ant6n »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #37

Reminds me of the opening to "Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson. In that book, a wet bulb event (high humidity and high temp) in India pushes infrastructure past the breaking point, the grid goes down, AC systems still running on generators are overloaded and overcrowded and fail, the water temp goes over body temp, and millions die. The positive cultural/societal reaction to the disaster strained my s…

I was also going to mention wet bulb temperatures as well. As horrible as the conditions described in the article is, it describes a very dry heat. Which means sweating and water can still help.

The really scary thing will be when the wet bulb temperature goes above 35 degrees, and humans can only survive with AC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#42

Post by conception »

elcritch wrote: post #7
jyounker wrote: post #2

"But global warming is a hoax. And even if it wasn't it's not our fault. People couldn't be the cause. And even if it is our fault there's nothing we could do about it." We have broken our world for the greed of a few. History will not be kind to us.

See I could agree with the first part. But then you add We have broken our world for the greed of a few . After that I sort of understand why so many folks reject the former – they're rejecting the empty moralizing. If you truly believe climate change is real then also admit that "We all have broken the world", except perhaps some uncontacted peoples in the Amazon. Anyone who has ridden in an automobile, a train, a p…

There’s a popular comic for this take - https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#43

Post by Bender »

ant6n wrote: post #41
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #37

Reminds me of the opening to "Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson. In that book, a wet bulb event (high humidity and high temp) in India pushes infrastructure past the breaking point, the grid goes down, AC systems still running on generators are overloaded and overcrowded and fail, the water temp goes over body temp, and millions die. The positive cultural/societal reaction to the disaster strained my s…

I was also going to mention wet bulb temperatures as well. As horrible as the conditions described in the article is, it describes a very dry heat. Which means sweating and water can still help. The really scary thing will be when the wet bulb temperature goes above 35 degrees, and humans can only survive with AC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature

For what it's worth they can live under ground [1][2], even build cities but they would have had to start that project some time ago. Before someone says it, yeah not everywhere and its not for everyone but in enough places and for enough people that we can adapt to heat and at least survive as a civilization.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsYmw6FtSIA Wyoming Trona mines

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#44

Post by dheera »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #36
elcritch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See I could agree with the first part. But then you add We have broken our world for the greed of a few . After that I sort of understand why so many folks reject the former – they're rejecting the empty moralizing. If you truly believe climate change is real then also admit that "We all have broken the world", except perhaps some uncontacted peoples in the Amazon. Anyone who has ridden in an automobile, a train, a p…

There are only about 1.6 billion cars in the world. Only about 20% of the world population has access to a personal car. Less than that have ever ridden a plane, and less than 10% fly with any regularity. A super majority of greenhouse gases emitted are due to the lives of the top 20-30% of the population (of which unfortunately I am a part). The remaining people's contributions are small. 80:20 rule in full glory. W…

The biggest hope at this point honestly is that fewer people are having kids and we're on track to halve the world population in another couple generations. Greenhouse emissions cut by half.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#46

Post by newobj »

elcritch wrote: post #7
jyounker wrote: post #2

"But global warming is a hoax. And even if it wasn't it's not our fault. People couldn't be the cause. And even if it is our fault there's nothing we could do about it." We have broken our world for the greed of a few. History will not be kind to us.

See I could agree with the first part. But then you add We have broken our world for the greed of a few . After that I sort of understand why so many folks reject the former – they're rejecting the empty moralizing. If you truly believe climate change is real then also admit that "We all have broken the world", except perhaps some uncontacted peoples in the Amazon. Anyone who has ridden in an automobile, a train, a p…

[flagged]

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#47

Post by andai »

elcritch wrote: post #7
jyounker wrote: post #2

"But global warming is a hoax. And even if it wasn't it's not our fault. People couldn't be the cause. And even if it is our fault there's nothing we could do about it." We have broken our world for the greed of a few. History will not be kind to us.

See I could agree with the first part. But then you add We have broken our world for the greed of a few . After that I sort of understand why so many folks reject the former – they're rejecting the empty moralizing. If you truly believe climate change is real then also admit that "We all have broken the world", except perhaps some uncontacted peoples in the Amazon. Anyone who has ridden in an automobile, a train, a p…

I worked at a warehouse last year. Managers always breathing down my neck to work faster. Constant stress for 9 hours straight. (Okay, we got a lunch break at least. There are worse jobs!)

It got me wondering. Alright, what's his problem. Well, his manager is breathing down his neck too. It's literally his job to make my day as stressful as possible. Okay, why? You trace that chain and where does it end up? Fat capitalist?

Well, something something mutual funds. Okay, that's beyond me.

But what else? Well, where's that pressure coming from? It's the customer. If the company stopped whipping us, and let us work at a normal pace, they'd need 40% more employees to cover the work. Delivery costs would increase proportionally, and suddenly grandma would stop buying from us. She'd go to the company that whips their employees. The whole place would go under.

Something something, Moloch is my nan?

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#48

Post by elcritch »

II2II wrote: post #33
elcritch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say we're all equally culpable. We're not. Yet en masse we're all guilty to some degree. There's only what 10's of thousands Taylor Swifts in the world. Yet there's billions of everyone else. The majority of greenhouse gasses likely come from the aggregate of everyone.

It doesn't always work that way. A personal example: I don't drive. I use public transit a couple of times a year. I am in private cars maybe once every two year. I haven't flown in about 15 years. Clearly this is a contrived example. My energy use patterns are much more typical when using other metrics. That said, it is also the flip side of being a Taylor Swift of the world. There is a point in the developed world…

> Globally, the poorest 50% emit roughly 4.4 billion tons to 4.7 billion tons equivalent annually, accounting for about 11% to 12% of total global greenhouse gas emissions.

The “less-developed” bottom half of the world population still produces about a tenth of the annual co2 production annually.

That means instead of potential climate catastrophe in 10 years it’d take 100 years if the top half disappeared tomorrow. Obviously an overly simplistic argument but its meant to show that the problem would just be slower but not gone if we got rid of the “wealthy”.

Now I don’t believe they’re equally as culpable. Yet I also firmly believe the vast majority would choose the same as us in developed world have if they could.

Ultimately that’s more of my point. What’s happening isn’t due to some evil plot by the ultra wealthy. It’s the result of human nature.

Some unscrupulous ultra wealthy might hasten it by a few years or a decade, but the core problem is human nature and an abundance of fossil fuels.

The “wealthy” are also the most likely to prevent catastrophe by developing renewables, etc.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#49

Post by abdullahkhalids »

dheera wrote: post #44
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only about 1.6 billion cars in the world. Only about 20% of the world population has access to a personal car. Less than that have ever ridden a plane, and less than 10% fly with any regularity. A super majority of greenhouse gases emitted are due to the lives of the top 20-30% of the population (of which unfortunately I am a part). The remaining people's contributions are small. 80:20 rule in full glory. W…

The biggest hope at this point honestly is that fewer people are having kids and we're on track to halve the world population in another couple generations. Greenhouse emissions cut by half.

The per capita emissions of USA/Canada/Gulf countries have to be cut by a factor of 8-10 to reach sustainable levels. The per capita emissions of EU/China/SEA have to cut by 4 to reach sustainable levels. All within the next 25 years if we want to avoid crossing tipping points.

Halving the population in 50 years is not a realistic plan.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#50

Post by ares623 »

If you are reading this in your climate controlled northern hemisphere room, be reminded that the people suffering this are not just going to disappear, and they will need to live somewhere, somehow, and they will be more motivated than you will ever be. If you love your "western comfort" so much, the best thing you can do is to make sure other people than yourselves can also have a bare minimum of living conditions.
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