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Samurai City

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Re: Samurai City

#41

Post by bondarchuk »

nvader wrote: post #22

Loved it. This is some necessary background that helps me contextualize a few other oddities of the time period that I have had floating in my short term memory - Miyamoto Musashi (d. 1645) - Tsujigiri, random slashing of bystanders - the Great wave off Kanagawa, painted towards the end of the Edo period - Shinobi evolving from mercenaries into secret police

from wiki:

>Tsujigiri (辻斬り or 辻斬, literally "crossroads killing") is a Japanese term for a practice when a samurai, after receiving a new katana or developing a new fighting style or weapon, tests its effectiveness by attacking a human opponent, usually a random defenseless passer-by, in many cases during night time.

I know it's tragic but this sounds so absurd it just made me laugh. They were on some good shit.

Re: Samurai City

#42

Post by squaresmile »

aquariusDue wrote: post #36
Morromist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty wise. I never considered that. During the very late part of the edo period China had the Taiping Rebellion, the deadliest religious civil war in human history by some meansures. I've read that it was caused by a very complicated mix of things, one of which was resentment of the northern Manchu ethnic group which ruled China, combined with terrible floods and famine. Perhaps that's a case where lack of d…

Don't leave us hanging! Please mention the book's name and author so others like myself can mean to read it too. I'm just half joking, I suffer from a large historical blindspot for that part of the world and I'm trying to collect a list of books to read over the next two years to address this perceived (by myself only) issue.

These are not 1000 page books (but combined they can be):

- God's Chinese Son: The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of Hong Xiuquan (more about the Taiping and their leader)

- Autumn in the Heavenly Kingdom: China, the West, and the Epic Story of the Taiping Civil War (more about the west's actions)

I just saw this book on Amazon and haven't read so might be a good read to round out the history: Struggle for Empire: The Battles of General Zuo Zongtang (Qing statesman and army officer, General Tso's chicken was named after him!)

Overall, I would say good English material on this conflict is a bit thin. I would recommend reading more about the Qing dynasty, Opium wars, first Sino Japanese war, Boxer Rebellion, Xinhai Revolution. /r/askhistorians always have good books recommendation.

Re: Samurai City

#43

Post by stasomatic »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #25

The theme of this article is seen directly as a major plot point in the series Shogun. Its quite a good show!

Loved that show. There is a fairly recent "Last Samurai Standing" fictional series that portrays the desperation of the Samurai after the end of the Edo era. It's a bit Squid Game-ish, but I enjoyed it immensely.

Re: Samurai City

#44

Post by stasomatic »

578_Observer wrote: post #35

Banker in rural Japan here. I lend to small family businesses, so I read this from an odd angle. The piece frames Edo as a gilded prison that produced little. True for the samurai half. But the merchant class it created in the Low City didn't just give us ukiyo-e and kabuki. It gave us companies that are still open. Part of my job is assessing old family firms for credit, and a number of them trace their founding to…

This gives me Zelda TOTK vibes :) Do you write about your life/business elsewhere?

Re: Samurai City

#45

Post by mfro »

keiferski wrote: post #28
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #25

The theme of this article is seen directly as a major plot point in the series Shogun. Its quite a good show!

And an even better book, which is a part of an excellent series spanning centuries and Singapore, Hong Kong, Iran, and many other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Saga

Yes, if you enjoyed the show, I cannot recommend the book enough

Re: Samurai City

#46

Post by Morromist »

aquariusDue wrote: post #36
Morromist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty wise. I never considered that. During the very late part of the edo period China had the Taiping Rebellion, the deadliest religious civil war in human history by some meansures. I've read that it was caused by a very complicated mix of things, one of which was resentment of the northern Manchu ethnic group which ruled China, combined with terrible floods and famine. Perhaps that's a case where lack of d…

Don't leave us hanging! Please mention the book's name and author so others like myself can mean to read it too. I'm just half joking, I suffer from a large historical blindspot for that part of the world and I'm trying to collect a list of books to read over the next two years to address this perceived (by myself only) issue.

Its by Augustus F. Lindley and called Ti-ping tien-kwoh; the history of the Ti-ping revolution Volume I and II. And its actually 955 pages. Its an account written by one of the generals fighting for the rebels, who was also a British guy. Its part history part memoir. Kind of a weird book.

I suspect those other books people mentioned are probably better if you want a good understanding of the war that's not one sided and written in 1866. But its one of the very few contemporally written first-person works available.

Edit: you can find it on Project Gutenburg for free if you want to take a look at it. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/39180/39180-h/39180-h.htm

Re: Samurai City

#47

Post by Morromist »

watwut wrote: post #40
Morromist wrote: post #3

One thing that I find interesting about this is that "samurai lived in dignified but extreme poverty" but never really did anything to threaten the state and take its riches for themselves for hundreds of years, despite all of them being crammed together with lots of opportunity to organize an enormous rebellion right in the city where the king lived. Perhaps they didn't think of it as poverty. Anyway, great read.

My interpretation of the revolutions is that they happen only when the government as such becomes weak and is unable to perform the constant suppression. They do not happen just because the conditions are bad. Bad condition themselves are not enough, revolution requires people to think at least some of them can actually gain something.

That could be. I'm thinking of the Chu–Han Contention and the Warlord Era in China as times that it was probably the case - In both cases goverment control collapsed and there was not just one rebellion but a whole bunch that all sprang up at once and then proceeded to fight eachother! Arguably some of that happened during the Russian Revolution too.

Re: Samurai City

#48

Post by [deleted] »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #7
Morromist wrote: post #3

One thing that I find interesting about this is that "samurai lived in dignified but extreme poverty" but never really did anything to threaten the state and take its riches for themselves for hundreds of years, despite all of them being crammed together with lots of opportunity to organize an enormous rebellion right in the city where the king lived. Perhaps they didn't think of it as poverty. Anyway, great read.

They very much understood their situation. That was the means of control. Their incomes were directly defined by agricultural productivity, and their expenses largely controlled by the shogun. Daimyo couldn't meaningfully communicate with each other, easily intermarry, or form alliances. They were forced to maintain huge retinues and lavish estates, and the shogun could bankrupt them or kill their family at any point…

[deleted]

Re: Samurai City

#49

Post by 578_Observer »

stasomatic wrote: post #44
578_Observer wrote: post #35

Banker in rural Japan here. I lend to small family businesses, so I read this from an odd angle. The piece frames Edo as a gilded prison that produced little. True for the samurai half. But the merchant class it created in the Low City didn't just give us ukiyo-e and kabuki. It gave us companies that are still open. Part of my job is assessing old family firms for credit, and a number of them trace their founding to…

This gives me Zelda TOTK vibes :) Do you write about your life/business elsewhere?

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