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What's gonna happen to software engineers?

yakko.dev

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Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#41

[flagged]

The difference, and I think we as an industry will have to reconcile this depending on how advanced llms get, is that you don’t see the quality in handmade code like you do in a high end watch or a luxury automobile or appliance. The veneer might be identical. It’s going to be tough to convince people that handmade software has added value or quality over slop. I still believe it does right now, but that might not al…

What're you talking about? I can instantly detect if software was created with AI. It has a stench much like a cheap product who's materials off gassing, and Im certainly not using it over the handmade solution. There will always be two options, like in clothes or watches.

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#42
post #35

Four day working weeks would be nice.

OP here. So I've also been running a survey about how developers are feeling about AI (added a link to the post) and 60% of respondents said that using AI actively makes them more tired. Most also report being more productive with AI. One would think these two things combined make up for initiatives for shorter work weeks and the like, but from what I've seen, at least for now, the opposite seems to be happening.

P.S. Sample size is currently small but I've also gathered a fair amount of qualitative data to indicate both of these things. Of course measuring productivity is also far from a science.

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#44
post #26

[flagged]

People take pride in wearing handmade watches As of today, I've never heard of anyone taking pride in using a SaaS or frequenting a website or an app because it was handcrafted. Maybe some day

I think there's a ton of examples where this is true for lower level stuff like open source where you see the internals.

For commerical products it certainly exists too, for example in those cases where you know the product is built by one person or a small group of people who you absolutely know take extraordinary care to get all the details right, and it shows through as a really nice intangible feeling when you're using the product.

That (kind of rare to be honest) 'oh this is just really well done' feeling.

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#45
LLMs have taken much of the enjoyment out of coding for me, but I don’t think it has to be that way. I hope that as an industry we settle on LLMs being more like tools than human assistants. I think most of the engineers at my company are using LLMs as human assistants- most of them have agentic workflows set up and have premium subscriptions to Claude AND Gemini AND ChatGPT. Many have local LLMs running on their company MacBook Pros, but they can never manage to describe to me in plain English what those local LLMs are doing. I would compare local LLMs to Raspberry Pi clusters. They’re neat, and technically they can do stuff but they are incredibly impractical. I want so desperately to have the power of Claude Opus running locally, but we are incredibly, ridiculously, extremely far off (benchmarks are often misleading and nobody likes to talk about the paltry tokens/s they’re getting on their home rig).

So the problem for me is that I’ve noticed a trend with my coworkers- they usually don’t have a formal CS background (e.g., Comp Sci degree), their resumes are unimpressive, and they have personal websites where anyone can download a copy of their resume. I haven’t seen this at any previous job. It’s just weird, man. Anyway, so my problem is when they are purported to be the best of the best at this company, and they’re chugging the LLM kool-aid, I’m struggling to figure out whether they’re really ahead of the curve and getting the drop on the rest of us, or they’re doing basically no work and waving through each other’s PRs with little to no oversight on what the LLMs are writing. The bush league nature of many of the bugs I’m seeing going all the way to prod makes me think it’s the latter.

Meanwhile, these guys and their teams are completing an absurd number of story points each sprint. My team is dead last (and coincidentally we’re all pretty anti-AI for writing code).

I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. I’m waiting for the C suite to call our project a failure and lay everyone off. The product generally works, though I think if the devs were truly rockstars, things would be much smoother. It seems like LLMs are letting middle-of-the-road or mediocre devs appear to be rockstars purely on output speed. Nobody in this org cares if the output has 4x the bugs it should have, just that it was completed quickly.

The main issue I think is that nobody- including the rockstar tech leads- knows how the system works. They don’t know the code. There’s a bug and it takes forever to track down. Don’t ask about unit tests.

I think in a perfect world, these LLMs are treated like another tool rather than another person- meaning you and I still write a large portion of the code, and we read and understand every line- especially the lines generated by LLMs. It’s still a huge productivity multiplier for me to not have to remember how to do mundane things like write out arrays into CSV files- before I’d find a close implementation on StackOverflow and tweak to my needs. Now I can just describe what I want the CSV to look like and Claude Code generally gets it right on the first try.

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#46
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reversing to which direction? Because what I've always seen here is a pretty good mix of positive and negative sentiments. Usually we get a lot of AI related submissions, but with skeptics/opposers in the comments.

I’m not sure. I’ve been reading death-of-the-software engineer for years, but recently the -vibe- feels different. I don’t have anything anecdotal to back it up so take it with a grain of salt. I might be reading what I want to see

I'm assuming it's a turn to the negative and not more positivity you're seeing? Geohot's article and Hasimoto's tweet about AI psychosis kind of made me pay attention.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48263238

https://xcancel.com/mitchellh/status/2055380239711457578

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#47
post #3

I really love using AI to code but more and more I wonder ... Are things really that different? So I guess I'm the business as usual type. I think on the frontend side we're going to see a lot more scope for teams. On a backend infra side it seems as hard as ever. Still have to think really hard problems, think deeply about data structure and flow, and deal with second- and third-order effects. Or even harder because…

I work on backend infra. I touch a lot of things and have multiple instances of claude code running at once. I do feel like I'm doing more simultaneously. but that's still more that I have to keep track of and make sense of in my head. claude is making me way more productive, for sure, but at the same time I feel way more overwhelmed than I've ever been. idk how anyone else is doing it and managing all of this. suppo…

Right there with you - this has been my experience as well, to a tee

I can do more now…so I do - it’s really that simple

And it’s way more exhausting because there’s no room to breathe - fresh code to work with every few minutes with prepping for the next set of tasks in between

On the one hand the dopamine’s got me hooked on this like a video game

On the other…I’m as overwhelmed as ever line you said, even if it’s my own doing

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#48
post #3

I really love using AI to code but more and more I wonder ... Are things really that different? So I guess I'm the business as usual type. I think on the frontend side we're going to see a lot more scope for teams. On a backend infra side it seems as hard as ever. Still have to think really hard problems, think deeply about data structure and flow, and deal with second- and third-order effects. Or even harder because…

LLMs seem to be best at writing web apps intended to be internal tools. I don’t need to ever really read the code because the functionality is relatively simple- but still valuable. I had Claude Code build me a CLI tool for running common kubectl commands against our EKS cluster. With EKS (AWS) you generally use the AWS CLI to authenticate and then choose the correct EKS cluster and then you can run your kubectl commands. So this CLI tool remembers all the AWS accounts and EKS cluster names and namespaces and pods that I care about. It’s been a huge time saver, and I never would have had the time to build it as part of my day to day. And because it’s an internal tool, I don’t have to worry about things like security/authentication, and any bugs aren’t as big a deal as if they were customer-facing. I wouldn’t want to use it for generating an app that is going on the public internet and doing anything sensitive/important/valuable with my or other people’s data (I’m sure that doesn’t stop others from vibe coding commercial products).

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#49
post #3

I really love using AI to code but more and more I wonder ... Are things really that different? So I guess I'm the business as usual type. I think on the frontend side we're going to see a lot more scope for teams. On a backend infra side it seems as hard as ever. Still have to think really hard problems, think deeply about data structure and flow, and deal with second- and third-order effects. Or even harder because…

Yeah I mean, as far as I can tell the result of the agent mania is the same amount of software, but an acceleration in the decline of performance and quality. I'm also increasingly seeing early adopters going back to a more "traditional" approach to development. So idk, maybe the result will be more jobs fixing up all the vibe code while we transition to a more mature implementation of language models into our workfl…

[deleted]

Re: What's gonna happen to software engineers?

#50
post #39

I really liked reading through the Mars trilogy. It imagined a world where AI is used for fluent effortless translation - local languages get a renaissance since now you _dont_ need a lengua Franca, everyone just speaks what they like the most, and can understand everyone else. Much more “flavour” to human interaction. Also ai makes things just resource constrained, not labour - whatever you imagined, you could make…

The issues are really social/political/behavioural.

If white collar jobs are decimated the economy will collapse, because it's still - nominally - a consumer economy, even though most of the spending comes from the top 10%.

If 25% of that top 10% is suddenly out of work, that's a huge chunk of GDP gone, and a likely depression as the knock on effects spread.

I don't see anyone thinking about this seriously. [Something something UBI] is not a serious attempt to deal with the problem.

Ultimately you end up with an economy where most humans are surplus to economic requirements and will literally be murdered by economics.

Or wealth and opportunity are widely distributed, but "jobs" are nothing like they are today.

Given where we are now option 1 looks closer.

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