Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism • Hacker News Board

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#41

Post by merelydev » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:01 PM UTC

mentalgear wrote: post #38

merelydev wrote: post #7

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

'who controls technology' should be the result of 'what do [they] want to use it for', e.g the motivation. It should be put in the hands of the most trustworthy, transparent institution that can validate it works for all of us, not just the few. I don't think private companies or specific leaders want the best for the common good, so it would make the most sense to give control to a supra-nation entity like the UN -…

Would you agree that to some extend, the ability to control technology is an incentive for companies to develop/innovate, and the more control they have the more profitable it is?

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#42

Post by dgellow » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:03 PM UTC

knollimar wrote: post #39

steveBK123 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technologists who create it believe they should control it I think it goes deeper than this when you listen to them talk. They truly think society will be re-ordered by this technology... and they should be in control of that re-ordering rather than democratically elected governments.

Democratically elected governments can't reorder a cookie right now. We even had one out tariffs on steel, thinkinf this would be good for jobs here. If there was 0.1 seconds of thought they'd realize any manufacturing job you make from a steel tariff cuts 2 more well paid trade jobs

> If there was 0.1 seconds of thought they'd realize any manufacturing job you make from a steel tariff cuts 2 more well paid trade jobs

They knew that was the case. They don't care. The maga crowd isn't acting in good faith. Nobody other than the cult members and people who aren't paying attention thought that would actually bring manufacturing back to the US. The point of the tariffs is to devalue USD (something Trump wants to do since circa the 80s) and to strengthen Trump power/influence. He wants everybody in the world to be forced to come and negotiate directly with him so he can see them bend their knees. The whole thing is a power play

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#43

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:03 PM UTC

knollimar wrote: post #39

steveBK123 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technologists who create it believe they should control it I think it goes deeper than this when you listen to them talk. They truly think society will be re-ordered by this technology... and they should be in control of that re-ordering rather than democratically elected governments.

Democratically elected governments can't reorder a cookie right now. We even had one out tariffs on steel, thinkinf this would be good for jobs here. If there was 0.1 seconds of thought they'd realize any manufacturing job you make from a steel tariff cuts 2 more well paid trade jobs

I've thought about this for at least 15 seconds, and this remains mysterious to me. Could you explain, please?

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#44

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:04 PM UTC

matusp wrote: post #24

merelydev wrote: post #7

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

This is the question that led to the communist movement in the 19th century.

And the Luddite movement, also in the 19th century.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#45

Post by yonaguska » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:05 PM UTC

fidotron wrote: post #30

merelydev wrote: post #7

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

It's legitimately surprising how off the pace HN is when it comes to discussions of this type. You won't get useful thoughts on this around here.

be the change you wish to see- share your thoughts.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#46

Post by tedd4u » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:07 PM UTC

greedo wrote: post #22

Frank Herbert was prophetic.

Another "prophet," Carl Sagan in 1995

"I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

And when the dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites now down to 10 seconds or less, lowest-common-denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."

- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (with Ann Druyan)

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#47

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:08 PM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #37

mijailt wrote: post #8

Somewhat related: Peter Thiel and the Antichrist [1] > Thiel: [...] There’s a risk of nuclear war, there’s a risk of environmental disaster. Maybe something specific, like climate change, although there are lots of other ones we’ve come up with. There’s a risk of bioweapons. You have all the different sci-fi scenarios. Obviously, there are certain types of risks with A.I. > But I always think that if we’re going to h…

> The Pope is pleading for multilateralism and responsible regulation of technology. According to the Economist at least, he doesn't seem to know what he wants. The encyclical sounds like a grabbag of every progressive meme and worry out there, whether they contradict each other or not. You can't have both multilateralism and AI regulation (however that's defined). If you have genuine multilateralism then there will…

In an infinitely-large "truly multilateral world", what you are saying is true under the assumption that unregulated AI provides a competitive advantage for the jurisdiction, assuming preferences are each sampled from a totally-supported probability distribution. But we only have finitely-many jurisdictions, and it's not clear that AI accelerationism is actually good for anyone (except those extracting wealth from the corresponding financial bubble), so this conclusion doesn't follow.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#48

Post by erelong » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:10 PM UTC

...as well as Catholic teaching...

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#49

Post by portmanteur » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:12 PM UTC

erelong wrote: post #48

...as well as Catholic teaching...

In which ways, specifically? Or, which ways would you like to promote a discussion about?

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#50

Post by knollimar » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:14 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #43

knollimar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democratically elected governments can't reorder a cookie right now. We even had one out tariffs on steel, thinkinf this would be good for jobs here. If there was 0.1 seconds of thought they'd realize any manufacturing job you make from a steel tariff cuts 2 more well paid trade jobs

I've thought about this for at least 15 seconds, and this remains mysterious to me. Could you explain, please?

Sorry for being salty, a bit hyperbole perhaps in the 2:1 numbers.

I draft and write some code for construction companies and personally saw layoffs and not taking work due to increased material costs. The structural companies we worked with similarly did a few layoffs. The average pay of these jobs was 60k+.

Manufacturing of steel is very competitive and I haven't seen the American steel drop in price. I can't personally imagine it adding more than a few thousand jobs since it's so competitive (thin margins) and you would have to add a ton of production to add one job.

Meanwhile, the profitability of building a building is a direct feed into whether buildings get built. A building not being built directly led to laying off about 100 field guys for us.