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About LLMs at Zig Days

kristoff.it

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Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#41

Post by slopinthebag »

sharperguy wrote: post #34
myth_drannon wrote: post #14

LLMs are just pushed by everyone at us, people just can't stand hearing about it anymore even if they use it and find it helpful. It's like at PyCon2026 the keynote was about LLM, and people were just leaving in the middle, including GvR.

It's hard to avoid the topic when it literally redefines what it means to create software. If I'm using it to create some piece of software, then I turn around and say "I wrote this" am I even being truthful? But if I'm trying to avoid mentioning LLMs what other wording could I use?

Maybe just don't talk about stuff you commissioned (not created), it's entirely uninteresting to everybody else.

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#42

Post by skeledrew »

Be interesting to see where Zig and ecosystem is in a few years with this general anti-LLM stance from it's core people. My guess is it'll just make it's way as a hobby language, left behind in the dust. Which is of course a perfectly fine thing for some.

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#43

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #36
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people insist on using extreme rhetoric like this? If you don't personally like using LLMs, that's fine. The only point this comment serves is to stir the pot. Using your first example, if it was true and universally accepted that this was plaigerism--we wouldn't use it, now would we? But that's not the universal opinion so instead you're just twisting someone else's comment to stir the pot. Again, if you don'…

> Why do people insist on using extreme rhetoric like this? I simply narrowed the logical specificity of why LLM may be avoided in some use cases. No one can 100% prevent theft, as some people will decide personal desperation excuses philosophical compromises. It differs from a sociopath anti-social behavior, which is a constant aspect of civilizations. People can choose to be upset, or recognize it is a facet of som…

You claimed to "fix a logical fallacy" by merely stating your opinion that this is theft. Many (most?) disagree with the premise that using an LLM is somehow tantamount to theft.

I invited you to attempt to present an argument, which you have neatly side-stepped.

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#44

Post by tolerance »

ratstew wrote: post #7
jdlshore wrote: post #4

For those who aren’t aware, as I wasn’t, this is coming from the “VP of Community” at the Zig Foundation. So the proposal to soft ban LLMs at Zig Day meetups seems like it has a bit more weight than if it was some random community member. (I’m not a member of the community, so not fully aware of the dynamics.)

Isn't "soft ban" still a bit harsh? I think it was reasonable take and a good reminder of the purpose of these events.

> Isn't "soft ban" still a bit harsh?

Not necessarily. The take is reasonable but I'm curious about who could be bold enough to actually talk about or disclose their use of LLMs during these events.

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#45

Post by embedding-shape »

sharperguy wrote: post #34
myth_drannon wrote: post #14

LLMs are just pushed by everyone at us, people just can't stand hearing about it anymore even if they use it and find it helpful. It's like at PyCon2026 the keynote was about LLM, and people were just leaving in the middle, including GvR.

It's hard to avoid the topic when it literally redefines what it means to create software. If I'm using it to create some piece of software, then I turn around and say "I wrote this" am I even being truthful? But if I'm trying to avoid mentioning LLMs what other wording could I use?

> It's hard to avoid the topic when it literally redefines what it means to create software.

Say that the IDE also "redefined what it meant to create software" when it entered the ecosystem as an idea and product, does that mean every conversation, community meetup and thinking needs to consider the IDEs now? Probably not, then there is no more room for the other topics anymore.

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#46

Post by altairprime »

sharperguy wrote: post #34
myth_drannon wrote: post #14

LLMs are just pushed by everyone at us, people just can't stand hearing about it anymore even if they use it and find it helpful. It's like at PyCon2026 the keynote was about LLM, and people were just leaving in the middle, including GvR.

It's hard to avoid the topic when it literally redefines what it means to create software. If I'm using it to create some piece of software, then I turn around and say "I wrote this" am I even being truthful? But if I'm trying to avoid mentioning LLMs what other wording could I use?

This is a meetup for Zig the tool, so you would need to identify how you are interested in Zig to attend and not run into problems.

“I want to [verb] with Zig someday and want to show up and listen and learn”

“I [verb] with Zig and have formed opinions and want to swap them with others”

“I [verb] with Zig and have not yet formed opinions”

If you can’t identify a verb for such a sentence, then you probably need to gain some vague clarity on why you’re considering attending.

But if your sentences are all “I [verb] with LLM”, then there’s no point in attending a Zig meetup; attend an LLM meetup instead. “I [verb] with LLM and the LLM [verbs] with Zig” isn’t transitive to “I [verb] with Zig using LLM” in human social relations; that difference matters, even though a logical evaluation would claim that ( A & B ) & ( B & C ) = A & C. People are extremely sensitive to the difference and Zig has labeled their events as A & B, not A & C.

Specific example: “I code with LLM […] in Zig” would be offtopic, because there’s no human verb-use of Zig present; the verb “code” is bound to LLM, not to Zig, and so is not a valid basis for human connection over a shared interest in Zig.

Specific example: “I write out Zig programs on paper first” would be ontopic, but “I write Zig with pencils rather than pens” would be offtopic; even though both refer to the same activity, one is about how you perform a creative act within your self to output Zig, the other is best reserved for a stationery BOF.

(This holds true for all “I [verb] with [noun]” BOFs and is a good general principle for when to, and when not to, bring up LLMs at a Noun event. You can swap also “LLMs” for “employees” and get the same outcome: don’t go to a Noun BOF to talk about managing Noun workers; instead, go to a Managers BOF to talk about Verbing.)

See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48315082

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#47

Post by kristoff_it »

tolerance wrote: post #44
ratstew wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't "soft ban" still a bit harsh? I think it was reasonable take and a good reminder of the purpose of these events.

> Isn't "soft ban" still a bit harsh? Not necessarily. The take is reasonable but I'm curious about who could be bold enough to actually talk about or disclose their use of LLMs during these events.

The whole reason for this blog post is because discussion about LLMs does happen already (to the point of being a bit suffocating).

see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48314145

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#48

Post by frakt0x90 »

skeledrew wrote: post #42

Be interesting to see where Zig and ecosystem is in a few years with this general anti-LLM stance from it's core people. My guess is it'll just make it's way as a hobby language, left behind in the dust. Which is of course a perfectly fine thing for some.

Naw, limiting LLMs for an event that's specifically about learning, growing, and collaborating makes a lot of sense. If it ends up dying it won't be because of their stance on LLMs for a conference.

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#49

Post by nektro »

skeledrew wrote: post #42

Be interesting to see where Zig and ecosystem is in a few years with this general anti-LLM stance from it's core people. My guess is it'll just make it's way as a hobby language, left behind in the dust. Which is of course a perfectly fine thing for some.

> I would still recommend not putting all your eggs in one basket just yet because [..] there will still be some value in knowing how systems work, both to differentiate yourself from other developers career-wise, and as part of effective LLM steering.

the thesis is that investing in your skills outside of LLMs pays dividends whether you decide to apply those skills to LLMs or not, plus spending time bonding with your fellow engineers is good for you too. so I'm sure Zig will be doing great in a few years

Re: About LLMs at Zig Days

#50

Post by [deleted] »

skeledrew wrote: post #42

Be interesting to see where Zig and ecosystem is in a few years with this general anti-LLM stance from it's core people. My guess is it'll just make it's way as a hobby language, left behind in the dust. Which is of course a perfectly fine thing for some.

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