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Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

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Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#41

Post by ginko »

ptsneves wrote: post #6

As some commenters pointed out, this is basically slowly adding a real RGB led panel behind the LCD, or an OLED with extra steps. I could not see prices but I would expect this to be significantly cheaper, or maybe the refresh rate is much better than OLED.

>I could not see prices but I would expect this to be significantly cheaper, or maybe the refresh rate is much better than OLED.

The 55" Bravia 7II is listed as 2300 Euro. I paid like 1600 Euro for my 55" LG OLED tv a couple of years ago. Of course Sony is generally a more reputable brand (and LG's WebOS sucks) and consumer prices have been going up, but price doesn't seem to be the differentiator here.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#42

Post by jorvi »

klausa wrote: post #33
drcongo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the screen is 10ft away I doubt any human alive could perceive a sharpness difference from a nano texture.

I’d now be actually curious to do a Pepsi-style challenge to test this on myself. I give myself a ~low 40% chance of being able to tell within a minute when watching a TV show/movie _without subtitles_, maybe 60%ish with subtitles, and maybe low 80% if I was playing a game with any amount of text rendered on the screen.

You don't really need to do a challenge: https://i.rtings.com/images/optimal-viewing-distance-televis...

If you own a 50" 2160p ("4K") TV and are sitting more than 1.8m / 6ft away, you're already at the edge of being able to perceive any resolution increase over 1080p. For a 65" TV, its about 2.5m / 8ft.

So no, at typical viewing distance you are very unlikely to notice a sharpness decrease.

Tangentially related, but this is also why the 4K chase on this console generation is so stupid. The vast, vast majority of people will be viewing their TV way beyond the recommended viewing distance, and thus will only be resolving to 1080p with their eyes. We should be chasing better-looking effects and 120 FPS.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#43

Post by jorvi »

klausa wrote: post #40
zamadatix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because matte vs glossy is a separate discussion from cheap vs premium. The former is about marching the expected viewing conditions and the latter is about how advanced it tries to be about doing so. If you want the most optimal possible viewing experience you need to combine multiple aspects like that, not just buy a premium device.

> Because matte vs glossy is a separate discussion from cheap vs premium. My whole complaint is that it increasingly isn’t! If I wanted a “premium” variant of Steam Deck, I had no choice to opt out of matte coating. If I want the best TV panel possible from Sony, it only comes with the matte coating. I’m fine with the option for matte being there for folks who like this! I just want to be able to opt-out of it, if I…

This echoes the tug-of-war customers are having over controller (and Steam Deck) size haha. People with big hands think the Steam Deck and PS5 controller are perfect and the Switch and PS4 controller suck. People with small hands feel the exact opposite.

The option is either clever engineering or choice. Apple chose the engineering route with their nanotexture screen coatings. Microsoft has done it with the XSX controller, which has clever cut-outs so people with small hands (kids) can hold it in a different but still-comfortable way. Hopefully TV OEMS figure out a way to ape Apple.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#44

Post by bayindirh »

crustaceansoup wrote: post #38
bayindirh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage is, it's cheaper, can provide better color accuracy, and won't burn in as bad as OLED since LEDs have much longer lifespan w.r.t. OLEDs. I still can't accept to use OLEDs in TVs and computer screens. Both has much higher duty cycles w.r.t. phones and tablets, and I hate burn-in.

RTings has done multi-year burn-in tests and OLED TVs have an exceptional lifespan before burn-in these days, I honestly don't know what motivates this particular concern any more. You'll probably have the caps fail before you notice anything, maybe even multiple rounds if you recap it.

I have looked to the same burn-in tests actually, and they were just starting doing it. Some of the screens got burn-in pretty quickly.

Yes, screens have improved vastly since the first days, but my life expectancy of these devices is much longer than a ordinary consumer. I don't change a TV every 5 years.

Yes, my duty cycle is much lower than the ones gone through testing, but having one less failure point for my screens is always better. Also, I'm not a nitpicky person about contrast numbers and whatnot. If I enjoy the thing I'm occasionally watching, I'm more than fine.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#45

Post by bayindirh »

lnenad wrote: post #36
bayindirh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage is, it's cheaper, can provide better color accuracy, and won't burn in as bad as OLED since LEDs have much longer lifespan w.r.t. OLEDs. I still can't accept to use OLEDs in TVs and computer screens. Both has much higher duty cycles w.r.t. phones and tablets, and I hate burn-in.

Having had OLEDs for a while now and never experiencing burn in even in my monitor I believe this issue is either very overblown by the small amount of bad experiences and requires a large amount of misuse before it becomes a problem.

I have seen burn-in personally in my couple of early OLED devices, and saw them pretty quickly, so when I was buying my only TV and seen that RTINGS tests, I decided on an LCD.

My OLED devices fared fine for a lot of years, but I'm not sold on OLED on large surfaces, and a good quality, dynamic backlit LCD is more than enough for my needs.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#46

Post by klausa »

jorvi wrote: post #42
klausa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d now be actually curious to do a Pepsi-style challenge to test this on myself. I give myself a ~low 40% chance of being able to tell within a minute when watching a TV show/movie _without subtitles_, maybe 60%ish with subtitles, and maybe low 80% if I was playing a game with any amount of text rendered on the screen.

You don't really need to do a challenge: https://i.rtings.com/images/optimal-viewing-distance-televis... If you own a 50" 2160p ("4K") TV and are sitting more than 1.8m / 6ft away, you're already at the edge of being able to perceive any resolution increase over 1080p. For a 65" TV, its about 2.5m / 8ft. So no, at typical viewing distance you are very unlikely to notice a sharpness decrease. Tangentially related, but…

I’m at 65” and less than 2m away, and I absolutely can tell when text is not rendered at native resolution, which is why I’m also confident I’d be able to notice the matte coating too.

(I am also probably like three standard deviations _more annoyed_ by the blurriness than an average person, I’m more than willing to believe that an average person wouldn’t be able to tell, or at least wouldn’t be bothered by it anywhere close to the degree that I am.)

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#47

Post by numpad0 »

klausa wrote: post #4

What's with the recent trend of putting matte coatings on the most "premium" devices? This TV does it, the Steam Deck's done it, and it almost always looks terrible (the nano-etching on recent MBPs is _fine_; but still makes the text noticeably fuzzier). The market for top-end TVs is the people who _really_ care about image quality, why would you jeopardize that with a coating that makes it _worse_? I'm fine with thi…

That's the wrong way around. Matte is better for performance but gloss attract consumers so Apple puts "Pro" and glossy front in the same product. Actual pro displays are always matte, a bit like how actual pro cameras always have non-clicking shutter buttons but reviewers point that out as a con.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#48

Post by lnenad »

bayindirh wrote: post #45
lnenad wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had OLEDs for a while now and never experiencing burn in even in my monitor I believe this issue is either very overblown by the small amount of bad experiences and requires a large amount of misuse before it becomes a problem.

I have seen burn-in personally in my couple of early OLED devices, and saw them pretty quickly, so when I was buying my only TV and seen that RTINGS tests, I decided on an LCD. My OLED devices fared fine for a lot of years, but I'm not sold on OLED on large surfaces, and a good quality, dynamic backlit LCD is more than enough for my needs.

I don't know what "early" represents for you so cannot comment on that but my close to 10 year old 55 inch tv still doesn't have it.

Either way there's something about OLEDs that my eyes prefer, I cannot verbalize it. Maybe it's placebo :)

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#49

Post by izacus »

klausa wrote: post #14
izacus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I explicitly bought a high-end matte TV (Samsungs S95D) because of the coating - I like having light in my living room which means a lot of reflections from windows and other lights. Matte coating pretty much solved all my issues with glare and reflections and I don't have to sit in darkness while watching things anymore, it's great. The tradeoffs are negligible and appear in situations where other TVs would be unwat…

Is it fully matte, like on a desktop monitor, or is it some "reflection reduction" semi-gloss/semi-matter whatever magical coating?

I can't really say - there is an obvious film on it. The light/reflections turn into a very diffuse, barely visible lighter spot.

Re: Sony Launches Bravia 9 II and Bravia 7 II with 'True RGB'

#50

Post by izacus »

buran77 wrote: post #27
klausa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not every TV is used by two people in a room devoid of lighting. Friends will come over, other things will be watched. Some people are very bothered when the ceiling lighting or sunlight from the window "alters" the image. > Enthusiasts are an interesting bunch. Some features loved by others are grave flaws for others. One can't make everyone happy, so matte screens are an acceptable compromise for it, AFAIK. You k…

> I do _hate_ the blurriness that the matte coatings introduce Doesn't apply in this case, does it? Can you really see it watching media on a large TV at the usual viewing distances?

I haven't noticed blurriness really.

I have noticed that the darkest "black level" is less black (despite it being OLED screen) than on glossy screens in light conditions. That difference disappears in darker environment.

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