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Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

unicode.org

41–50 of 68 posts

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Han Unification was effectively "fixed" by Ideographic Variation Sequences, so no.

You mean theoretically. Effectively, nothing is fixed yet.

IVD works, theoretically and practically (recent versions of OpenType have an explicit support for them). It's not their fault that Japanese vendors have been not very quick to adopt them.

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it's not like there are hundreds of emojises pretty much exclusively tied to Japanese culture.

They were grandfathered in, not voted on. Or rather there was a vote that resulted in adopting the character sets developed by Japanese telecoms en masse.

Weirdly this is in line with Unicode in general. Widespread (and not even widespread) historic use in say print results in characters getting included.

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#43

Personally the whole emoji thing is an unmitigated disaster. I'm okay with smileys and gestures but everything else is pointless

I enjoy putting emojis in folder names on my computer for easier visual identification.

Also, in passwords on websites to keep developers on their toes.

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean theoretically. Effectively, nothing is fixed yet.

IVD works, theoretically and practically (recent versions of OpenType have an explicit support for them). It's not their fault that Japanese vendors have been not very quick to adopt them.

If a Japanese and Taiwanese person type things with their keyboards and end up with the same bytes for different logical characters then no things do not work practically for any practical definition of "practically".

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IVD works, theoretically and practically (recent versions of OpenType have an explicit support for them). It's not their fault that Japanese vendors have been not very quick to adopt them.

If a Japanese and Taiwanese person type things with their keyboards and end up with the same bytes for different logical characters then no things do not work practically for any practical definition of "practically".

Your argument is absurd because people don't see code---they see glyphs, and using the same code for slightly different glyphs is a non-issue when they are not interchanged. (And when they are interchanged, both would see glyphs "correct" to them anyway.) Japaneses are sensitive to Han unification only because they recognize more glyph variations (Z-variants) than what Unicode originally could, and IVS is exactly a tool for ensuring exact glyphs assuming cooperative vendors. Not to mention that Han unification was already quite weakened by source separation principles in the first place.

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#46

No toki pona?

Does it need any additional code points?

The Toki Pona script (aka sitelen pona) needs some codepoints for its ideograms. While Toki Pona is not in Unicode, tokiponists have mostly agreed to use the U+F19xx range in the Private Use Area-A. Most fonts rendering sitelen pona uses that. But using PUA is problematic (no character properties, a lot of restrictions on the web, and constant clashes with other fonts [such as the "nerdfonts" for example]).

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#47
post #43

Personally the whole emoji thing is an unmitigated disaster. I'm okay with smileys and gestures but everything else is pointless

I enjoy putting emojis in folder names on my computer for easier visual identification. Also, in passwords on websites to keep developers on their toes.

The password thing is hilarious but the former breaks some of my Unix tools

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally Unicode is for encoding all existing encodings/writing. So you generally can’t add something because it would be cool or fun or useful, but only because it is currently in use and cannot be encoded by Unicode.

If this were entirely true, we'd never see new emoji added, and yet we do.

That's not at all the case. Unicode began as a standard for making things like string(':)') in to a single character.

Consider all of the languages it supports. Consider: ﷽ (which isn't an emoji, but the point stands) which is an entire sentence. It was already in use in certain places and unicode decided they wanted to support it, so now they do. Previously, one would have to type out the entire sentence in the original characters, but now it is a single unicode, just like u+263a () used to be alt+1 (). The emoji was already in use long before unicode existed, and in seeing it in common use, they decided to support it.

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire notion that emoticons should be limited to what a committee approves (which is then mangled by corporate PR even further) is ridiculous. Just retvrn to images.

This. But more work is needed. I tried a bunch of Discord alternatives like Matrix but very few have a fun experience with things custom emoji images that really make a chat server feel like a home.

There are clients on Matrix that support custom emojii, such as Sable and Commet. Neither are absolutely perfect, but I know people who daily-drive one of the other (or both, which is where I'm at depending on the device).

For the most part, now that Matrix is merging those Matrix 2.0 specs finally, and the 2.0 features are already out in the wild with excellent results, it has a really good base, and as expected we've started to see clients build more into the average-consumer space to pose as alternatives to both niche and mainstream audiences such as Discord, Whatsapp, etc - Which it just wasn't/isn't able to do on Matrix 1.x (legacy).

Re: Unicode 18.0.0 Beta

#50

Personally the whole emoji thing is an unmitigated disaster. I'm okay with smileys and gestures but everything else is pointless

Google/Apple needed it to fill the moat for Japanese phone market - for Google it was because Japanese carriers were stripping emoji from outgoing emails, and for Apple it was because iPhone as a real phone and not an Internet-connected pocket PC with voice call had to support the SoftBank emoji set.

And yeah, :slack-style-emoji-notation: is superior. It was just a historical necessity for Google/Apple.

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