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Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

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Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#41

Post by dgellow »

garygao wrote: post #27
wewtyflakes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of what you mention in your post seemed spammy; messaging regarding cart abandonment, etc. I aggressively label messages like that as spam, and I suspect others do too. I also suspect after blasting out messages like that, your accounts will get burned.

We work with our customers to make those messages consent-based and feel non-spam.

Could you elaborate? What does that mean in practice?

So far what I’ve seen from your service seems to be yet another attempt at blurring the distinction between bots and human interactions, which is generally used for spammy content

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#42

Post by garygao »

liamcardenas wrote: post #36

A few ideas for you guys: 1. Apple already supports iMessage for Business which is intended to cover the use cases you are targeting. But the set up process is ridiculous (for example: https://help.webexconnect.io/docs/wxcc-apple-messages-for-bu... ). It would be amazing to have "Vercel/Resend for iMessage for Business" 2. If you go the send blue route, please support iMessage app payloads. Send blue doesn't support…

Thanks for the suggestion! Yes, the setup process is extremely long and requires a lot of documents from the side of the business haha. It's definitely one of our goals to create the Vercel for iMessage for Business. Also, for the iMessage app payloads, that's an awesome suggestion! We can work on building that.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#43

Post by evilduck »

garygao wrote: post #14
rvz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the platform risk. Apple blocked Beeper.com for the same reason.

Apple doesn't inherently prohibit programmatic messaging. In fact, they actually developed Applescript for people to do that. What they are against is spam and abuse. Therefore, as long as we stay compliant and prevent spam, Apple is not necessarily against this.

How are your financial incentives aligned against sending spam? From this side, your words seem hollow and the typical viability of these businesses relies on sending spam.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#44

Post by satvikpendem »

Isn't this a direct violation of Apple's terms of service? You say you aren't spammy but at a certain point you will get banned. I'm not sure how YC funded this based on the platform risk alone but I guess these days they're throwing anything and everything at the wall.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#45

Post by [deleted] »

garygao wrote: post #42
liamcardenas wrote: post #36

A few ideas for you guys: 1. Apple already supports iMessage for Business which is intended to cover the use cases you are targeting. But the set up process is ridiculous (for example: https://help.webexconnect.io/docs/wxcc-apple-messages-for-bu... ). It would be amazing to have "Vercel/Resend for iMessage for Business" 2. If you go the send blue route, please support iMessage app payloads. Send blue doesn't support…

Thanks for the suggestion! Yes, the setup process is extremely long and requires a lot of documents from the side of the business haha. It's definitely one of our goals to create the Vercel for iMessage for Business. Also, for the iMessage app payloads, that's an awesome suggestion! We can work on building that.

[deleted]

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#46

Post by nvme0n1p1 »

garygao wrote: post #33
frumplestlatz wrote: post #28

> iMessage is intended for communicating with family and friends, and is not for conducting commercial activities or disseminating unwanted messages. iMessage misuse may result in service limitations. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/messages/ Seems pretty damn clear.

We are not "disseminating unwanted messages". A lot of what we're doing (e.g. customer support or missed call text back) would be things that users would already be doing conversationally over iMessage.

Are you "conducting commercial activities"?

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#48

Post by garygao »

john_strinlai wrote: post #31
garygao wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not encouraging spam with this. We're mainly focused on existing conversational use cases that's currently done over SMS/RCS. They can be more human and expressive when done over iMessage.

> We're not encouraging spam with this. what you encourage and what actually happens are two different things, though. gmail does not actively encourage spam, yet most spam emails i receive are from gmail addresses. you have to actively fight against malicious uses, like spam. "not encouraging" is nowhere near enough. what systems/processes/safeguards do you have in place to prevent abuse?

I agree. We're not completely self-serve right now, so we get to talk with each potential customer and learn about their use case before onboarding them onto the platform. This way, we can prevent use cases that involve spam or abuse.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#49

Post by striking »

zwily wrote: post #37
frumplestlatz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They developed AppleScript for people to do this individually, at limited scale. Push notifications, attached to an application or website, and controllable by a user on that basis, are the solution for corporate messaging at scale. This will get you banned. It’s not a question of if, but when. Users will hit the report spam button. Apple will shut you down.

Are you telling me that the “report spam” button actually does something??!?!?!!!

Your messages on iMessage are private by default, so "Report Spam" is the only way for Apple to receive the message for spam review.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#50

Post by dgellow »

garygao wrote: post #12
xena wrote: post #9

What is your plan to prevent spam from bad actors? How do you ban bad actors so they can't spam again? Does a user have to initiate contact in order to have messages sent to them?

1. Since we're not fully self-serve right now, we can choose to only partner with businesses with use cases that are opt-in and non-spam. 2. If we find that one of our customers is using this for spam, we'll reach out to them asap and determine next steps 3. Not necessarily. We support both inbound (user texts the phone line first) and opt-in outbound (we text the user first) use cases

And what would be the next steps? Would you block them from using your services, even if they are paying customers? Do you have agreements in place with your users to cover those situations? Is there a way for end users to report to you what they see as spam or unsolicited content? How do you monitor customers activity to determine if they are bad actors?

You should have answers for those points if you want to build trust with end users

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