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Building Pi with Pi

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Re: Building Pi with Pi

#41

Post by shooly »

rzmmm wrote: post #31
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. This visceral reaction to the term fascinates me. You’re not the only person here that mentioned it and it makes me wonder where that is coming from. We’re naming a machine here, not a human being. Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one) it would be directed at a piece of equipment. I find it fascinating because I don’t think people would bat an eye if that term was used for a hammer or keyboard.…

Seems that in some online circles it has racist connotation which I was not aware. Some context https://web.archive.org/web/20260101134925/https://www.wired...

This article also - unironically - says, that building a data center near specifically black people is literally racism. Don't waste your time reading this garbage.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#42

Post by bigcat12345678 »

Mashimo wrote: post #22
bigcat12345678 wrote: post #12

My feeling is that building agent with agent will be the first stable & mature software development pattern emerging. I reached that in several forward-looking induction: 1. If agent is continuing the path to trivialize software development, which appears the case given LLMs can generate better quality code than humans almost for free & instantly given the right context, then using agent to develop software is going…

> Engineering-wise building agents with agent essentially is a different skill patterns than building software with agents Why would that be different?

Because agents is different than conventional software:

1. They behave differently: non-deterministic vs deterministic

2. They have different mechanism: harness+llms vs codes+apis

3. They have different interfaces: clicking vs chatting

They are like boston dynamics robots vs humans

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#43

Post by rzmmm »

defrost wrote: post #33
rzmmm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems that in some online circles it has racist connotation which I was not aware. Some context https://web.archive.org/web/20260101134925/https://www.wired...

That snapshot appears to be of a partial page terminated with "You've read your last free article" before the real meat of the article begins. The direct wired link is: https://www.wired.com/story/the-ai-slur-clanker-has-become-a... A full readable 7 month old snapshot is: https://archive.md/gH1f5

It works fine if JavaScript is not enabled

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#44

Post by shooly »

dist-epoch wrote: post #30
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. This visceral reaction to the term fascinates me. You’re not the only person here that mentioned it and it makes me wonder where that is coming from. We’re naming a machine here, not a human being. Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one) it would be directed at a piece of equipment. I find it fascinating because I don’t think people would bat an eye if that term was used for a hammer or keyboard.…

> piece of equipment You are certain about things that experts in philosophy/consciousness/AI can't agree on. That should make you pause, not plow ahead.

Lots of people can think for themselves and don't need to wait for others to tell them what they should think.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#45

Post by voidUpdate »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #27
skeledrew wrote: post #17

[flagged]

Author here. This visceral reaction to the term fascinates me. You’re not the only person here that mentioned it and it makes me wonder where that is coming from. We’re naming a machine here, not a human being. Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one) it would be directed at a piece of equipment. I find it fascinating because I don’t think people would bat an eye if that term was used for a hammer or keyboard.…

> "Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one)"

The term was literally created in star wars to use as a racial slur against droids

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#47

Post by shooly »

voidUpdate wrote: post #26
nchmy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does clanker relate to the "n-word", and what's "all that accompanying history"?

As I understand it, "clanker" was a term created in star wars for people to refer to droids in a deliberately derogatory way. It is quite literally a racial slur created in a fictional universe, which people are now using against AI programs. Even I don't like it, and I'm pretty heavily anti-LLM

Racism is a bias regarding humans, not machines. "Machine" is not a race.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#48

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

voidUpdate wrote: post #45
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. This visceral reaction to the term fascinates me. You’re not the only person here that mentioned it and it makes me wonder where that is coming from. We’re naming a machine here, not a human being. Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one) it would be directed at a piece of equipment. I find it fascinating because I don’t think people would bat an eye if that term was used for a hammer or keyboard.…

> "Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one)" The term was literally created in star wars to use as a racial slur against droids

The term was adopted in Star Wars and has been used in science fiction before and after it too. It probably sits somewhere on some scale but it has always been used in literature as a term for machines and from that perspective I find it appropriate.

A machine does not have feelings. If you call your power drill a piece of shit you are not overstepping any bounds either.

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#49

Post by voidUpdate »

shooly wrote: post #47
voidUpdate wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, "clanker" was a term created in star wars for people to refer to droids in a deliberately derogatory way. It is quite literally a racial slur created in a fictional universe, which people are now using against AI programs. Even I don't like it, and I'm pretty heavily anti-LLM

Racism is a bias regarding humans, not machines. "Machine" is not a race.

There are many races in star wars, not all of which are humans. You could be racist against Gungans or Twi'lek if you wanted. Droids in star wars could be interpreted as fairly close to human in some cases, but are used as a slave race in probably a majority of cases

Re: Building Pi with Pi

#50

Post by voidUpdate »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #48
voidUpdate wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Even if it was a slur (I don’t consider it one)" The term was literally created in star wars to use as a racial slur against droids

The term was adopted in Star Wars and has been used in science fiction before and after it too. It probably sits somewhere on some scale but it has always been used in literature as a term for machines and from that perspective I find it appropriate. A machine does not have feelings. If you call your power drill a piece of shit you are not overstepping any bounds either.

Well maybe other people are different, but I'd feel uncomfortable using a slur against things as well as people. I don't have many qualms about using an insult to a specific item if I feel it's warranted, but using a racial slur is stepping over a line for me. I'd call a black person a twat if they were being a twat, but I wouldn't use the n words against them, no matter how much of a twat they were being
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