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We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

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Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#41

Post by ulfw »

michaelscott wrote: post #31
Tade0 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't know the nationality of the man in front of him as he's never seen the faces of the two before. It was the mid 90s, so it's not like he could easily look that up. Also he figured it would be rude. IIRC the wider context is that my dad, not knowing where the priests were at that moment and having no one to ask in the vicinity, went to a confessional as he saw someone there.

But why wouldn't he start the conversation in Polish? If the priest responds, he is Polish. If he doesn't, he is Spanish.

Yea I didn't get this logic either. Why would the Polish person be the one assumed to be speaking Latin but the Spanish (literally a language based on Latin) person not? Who says Spanish people can't learn Latin?

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#42

Post by poczekajnapomoc »

Tade0 wrote: post #26
asibahi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Why not start the conversation in Polish?

He didn't know the nationality of the man in front of him as he's never seen the faces of the two before. It was the mid 90s, so it's not like he could easily look that up. Also he figured it would be rude. IIRC the wider context is that my dad, not knowing where the priests were at that moment and having no one to ask in the vicinity, went to a confessional as he saw someone there.

Nie widzę problemu z pytaniem o polskiego księdza jeśli wiadomo, że taki znajduje się gdzieś w pobliżu - jeśli to miałoby ułatwić całą sprawę z załatwianiem chrztu. Nie ma w tym niczego niekulturalnego. No chyba, że tata był nauczony padać plackiem przed koloratką - to wtedy to zupełnie inna dyskusja.

Oh look at me, I'm being rude here - talking in Polish. Because that eases the convo.

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#43

Post by rafram »

shadowtree wrote: post #38
expedition32 wrote: post #2

I remember reading 17th century letters from Dutch diplomats. They used French to write back home- except when they talked about money. Such matters required a higher form of communication.

Lingua Franca, like literally. French used to be the language of diplomacy.

Lingua franca actually comes from the Mediterranean Lingua Franca [1], which was mostly derived from Northern Italian languages, not French. French eventually became the "lingua franca," but it wasn't widespread (or even clearly defined) when that term started being used.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#44

Post by lifestyleguru »

pndy wrote: post #34
krzyk wrote: post #22

What is strange, that medical matters are mostly translated to Polish, while when I watch medical shows on TV I see that US still tends to use Latin there. Similar thing for species names, not sure where I've seen it. A side note from Polanmd: My professor of Solids State Physics was pretty fluent in both Latin and Greek, which I find quite interesting (it was about ~20 years ago, he was in his 60-70s).

My sister had her diagnosis described in Latin in the early 90s by CZMP hospital in Łódź

I wonder if Latin was spoken and heard when Pavulon/Pancuronium was injected into victims during the same era in Łodź. "Fun fact" - pavulon can be used to execute a death sentence in USA.

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#45

Post by iagooar »

tecleandor wrote: post #9
comrade1234 wrote: post #3

My grandfather emigrated from Vilnius (was polish at the time) to the USA as a teenager and managed to find a church that did their mass in Latin, and still does to this day. I assume he understood it but I'm not sure - he was well-educated and spoke a few languages.

Giving the mass in Latin wasn't (generally) done because people understood Latin, but because of a traditionalist sense. The Second Vatican Council stated (among other things) that the mass could be done in other languages apart from Latin, and that it was a good thing to use local languages, so people could understand it better. After that Council some excisions appeared, like the Society of Saint Pius X, that recla…

Besides the language being Latin vs local languages, there is one huge difference people don't know about. The Tridentine Mass has the priest facing toward the altar and the tabernacle, this is called "ad orientem". In "modern" day post-Second-Vatican-Council mass, the priest typically speaks the local language and faces the congregation.

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#46

Post by pndy »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #44
pndy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister had her diagnosis described in Latin in the early 90s by CZMP hospital in Łódź

I wonder if Latin was spoken and heard when Pavulon/Pancuronium was injected into victims during the same era in Łodź. "Fun fact" - pavulon can be used to execute a death sentence in USA.

Oh damn... I'd guess they had their own "industry-specific" term for Pavulon.

There's English article on Wikipedia about this particular topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_Hunters?useskin=vector

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#47

Post by scbrg »

ulfw wrote: post #41
michaelscott wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why wouldn't he start the conversation in Polish? If the priest responds, he is Polish. If he doesn't, he is Spanish.

Yea I didn't get this logic either. Why would the Polish person be the one assumed to be speaking Latin but the Spanish (literally a language based on Latin) person not? Who says Spanish people can't learn Latin?

Both priests are assumed to understand Latin. The situation they want to avoid is starting up a conversation with someone in a language they don't know.

So the options are:

1) Use Polish, with the risk of being rude if you happen to speak to the Spanish priest

2) Use Latin and ask "do you speak Polish?", and both the Polish and the Spanish priest will understand.

You could of course argue that it's not so very rude to accidentally try to strike up a conversation with someone in a language they don't know, but apparently Tade0's father thinks it is.

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#48

Post by adrian_b »

kmac_ wrote: post #13
snowpid wrote: post #6

As a side note I do think Latin language should be become the official language of the EU. It's dead so - its a compromise for all member staes - you can change as you like - it was used millennials as a law language so it fits

Or Esperanto. But Spanish or Italian would also be great as they sound so nice.

Among the constructed languages that I have seen, I believe that Interlingua was the closest to how a language that could replace English as the international language should be.

I disagree with some grammatical choices made for Interlingua, but in any case it had a simple grammar and the vocabulary was well chosen among the words that are common to the greatest number of European languages. Thus I could read and understand Interlingua without knowing anything about it before that.

Interlingua has a vocabulary bias towards Romance languages, but that is due to the fact that Romance words, mostly coming from Latin or French, are also widespread in English, and also in other language groups like Germanic or Slavic, while much less Germanic or Slavic words are found in languages from other groups. Therefore when selecting the words that are found in most European languages, there are more Romance words than from the other groups.

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#49

Post by toyg »

The macaronic approach was pretty common everywhere, it's a natural stage of evolution - the old language 'holding on' with specialized terminology that would be pointless to replace with more inefficient expressions. Which is why Latin words and expressions are still deployed every day in legal and scientific conversations around all Western countries.

Re: We are Poles, so, of course, we print in Latin

#50

Post by baud147258 »

bombcar wrote: post #5
comrade1234 wrote: post #3

My grandfather emigrated from Vilnius (was polish at the time) to the USA as a teenager and managed to find a church that did their mass in Latin, and still does to this day. I assume he understood it but I'm not sure - he was well-educated and spoke a few languages.

The church Latin used in “the Latin Mass” is relatively simple and pretty easy to learn; and it’s very rare to find one that does the readings and homily in Latin; most of those are in English (or the local language) even at an FSSP parish. Of course if it’s “really” done in the ancient way then it’s done at such a high speed that you need five or six Jesuits and advanced recording equipment to even figure out what i…

While I've never been to a mass with the homily in Latin, I've had a few with the readings in Latin (including Monday's mass two days ago), which always annoys me a little because it's immediately followed by the translation in the local language.

Personally I prefer the Latin mass, but one change I'd like to see would be for all the texts for that day to be read in the local language, not just the Epistle and Gospel (among other changes).

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