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BBEdit 16

barebones.com

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Re: BBEdit 16

#41

Post by pokstad »

hgs3 wrote: post #40
pokstad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The software world is different today. People expect you to release security updates as vulnerabilities are discovered. They expect you to fix your application so that it works on the newest macOS that deprecated and broke the old APIs you used (or switch architectures). We expect continuous maintenance for a fixed price. I wish Textmate had a yearly charge to keep their team running instead of the one time purchase…

I think there is one major difference that separates the two eras: in ye olden days you bought software for a fixed price and while it's understood you might only receive updates for a limited time, you could continue using it so long as you had the ability to run it. For example, you didn't have to upgrade to Windows XP if you were satisfied with Windows 98. With subscriptions, it's a recurring fee to continue acces…

Windows sells more copies of its software the OEM route. Also, they sell specific versions that eventually end support. Today you might consider Windows almost a loss leader since Microsoft is diversified with many services on top of windows.

Re: BBEdit 16

#42

Post by bellowsgulch »

kennywinker wrote: post #31
bellowsgulch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather software companies sell at more realistic prices so that they have a sustainable business, and signal to others in the industry that it's still possible to build a sustainable business. No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent…

Implying that one of the oldest still actively developed commercial text editors is not doing sustainable business practices kinda misses the mark. They’ve been at this since 1992, 34 years ago. I think they know their business.

Yeah, I think I know their business, too. Remember 12 years ago when BBEdit left the Mac App Store only later to come back with subscriptions? Boo.

[1]: https://x.com/smorr/status/521033038713880576

[2]: https://www.barebones.com/company/press/bbedit_back_to_mas_p...

Re: BBEdit 16

#43

Post by debugnik »

kstrauser wrote: post #29
debugnik wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so this doesn't know about the major iCloud updates, or Apple Intelligence, or UI changes I'm not familiar with macOS: Why would an application need to be updated for any of these? Were the existing APIs insufficient to integrate these?

Yes, and that's universally true for all APIs. All of those have added new features that are widely adopted by other apps, and the older apps can't automagically start using new features without using a newer API, or having code added to take advantage of them. For instance, an app can't start using Apple Intelligence if it's compiled with an older version of the SDK that doesn't know that such a thing exists. There…

Thanks for the examples. I simply wasn't expecting the features you originally listed to require application support, I see they're more involved that I imagined.

Re: BBEdit 16

#44

Post by wlesieutre »

bellowsgulch wrote: post #27
kennywinker wrote: post #19

In 1998 bbedit 5.0 cost $120 usd. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $245 usd. Today an individual license costs $60. Wild how software pricing and sales models have changed, and good on bare bones for staying away from subscription pricing.

I would rather software companies sell at more realistic prices so that they have a sustainable business, and signal to others in the industry that it's still possible to build a sustainable business. No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent…

Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions.

Re: BBEdit 16

#45

Post by idle_zealot »

doublerabbit wrote: post #39
kstrauser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. If surgeons could wiggle their fingers and make a better scalpel, at no cost, and give a copy to all their friends, also at no cost, I bet they'd have some pretty spiffy scalpels going around soon and many docs would stop paying for them.

> No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. Blacksmithing, metal working?

Did I miss blacksmiths gaining the ability to infinitely duplicate and teleport their finished pieces into people's hands? Can one learn this power?

Re: BBEdit 16

#46

Post by kstrauser »

doublerabbit wrote: post #39
kstrauser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. If surgeons could wiggle their fingers and make a better scalpel, at no cost, and give a copy to all their friends, also at no cost, I bet they'd have some pretty spiffy scalpels going around soon and many docs would stop paying for them.

> No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. Blacksmithing, metal working?

To a point, although you can't make your own kiln for free. The tools in those trades consume a significant amount of resources, where computing is basically free once you pay for the hardware. Something like GCC is the software equivalent of a steel mill. Even if you could design one and give out the designs for free, you'd still have to pay for the raw materials to construct one.

Re: BBEdit 16

#47

Post by kstrauser »

bellowsgulch wrote: post #42
kennywinker wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implying that one of the oldest still actively developed commercial text editors is not doing sustainable business practices kinda misses the mark. They’ve been at this since 1992, 34 years ago. I think they know their business.

Yeah, I think I know their business, too. Remember 12 years ago when BBEdit left the Mac App Store only later to come back with subscriptions? Boo. [1]: https://x.com/smorr/status/521033038713880576 [2]: https://www.barebones.com/company/press/bbedit_back_to_mas_p...

Eh. I think that was a fine thing to offer for people who wanted it. You can still buy a perpetual license for the full version from their website.

Re: BBEdit 16

#48

Post by exe34 »

idle_zealot wrote: post #45
doublerabbit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. Blacksmithing, metal working?

Did I miss blacksmiths gaining the ability to infinitely duplicate and teleport their finished pieces into people's hands? Can one learn this power?

Teleport? You mean over fiber optics that cost millions to install and maintain?

Re: BBEdit 16

#49

Post by kstrauser »

debugnik wrote: post #43
kstrauser wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's universally true for all APIs. All of those have added new features that are widely adopted by other apps, and the older apps can't automagically start using new features without using a newer API, or having code added to take advantage of them. For instance, an app can't start using Apple Intelligence if it's compiled with an older version of the SDK that doesn't know that such a thing exists. There…

Thanks for the examples. I simply wasn't expecting the features you originally listed to require application support, I see they're more involved that I imagined.

You bet. Even with things like iCloud, any old app can store a file in iCloud Drive just like any other folder on the computer, but apps have to use the CloudKit SDK to use more advanced sync features. It keeps getting updated annually, so apps using an older CloudKit can't use features that've been added since then.

Re: BBEdit 16

#50

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

I just checked, and it looks like I have been using BBEdit for almost 35 years (It was initially shareware).

Siegel still manages it (I don't know if he is still the main coder). He never sold out.

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