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After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

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Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#41

Post by tptacek »

bob001 wrote: post #38
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the municipal policy ALPR debate generally does boil down to people who have a principles opposition to technology specialized for surveillance, and other people who believe it's no different from the cell towers that already track you. Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township.

> Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township. I suspect this happens a lot more often than people assume. It does not take much to bribe people to change their minds based on the publicly known international spy/espionage cases. People will sell out their country for like $5k.

First Law of Message Boards: bribery is fun to talk about, people just disagreeing about stuff and having little temper tantrums when they lose arguments is boring, ergo: bribery is everywhere.

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#42

Post by dawnerd »

bob001 wrote: post #38
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the municipal policy ALPR debate generally does boil down to people who have a principles opposition to technology specialized for surveillance, and other people who believe it's no different from the cell towers that already track you. Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township.

> Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township. I suspect this happens a lot more often than people assume. It does not take much to bribe people to change their minds based on the publicly known international spy/espionage cases. People will sell out their country for like $5k.

And besides, these days no ones giving straight cash to bribe, it's always via other means that are harder to trace and maybe not even directly monetary (sending them on a vacation, golfing, donations to charity...).

It's weird that people seem to act like lobbying doesn't exist at the city council level.

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#43

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

msabalau wrote: post #35
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's an odd way of viewing it. Having the reporting from the local paper amplified outside the immediate community strengthens the signal, and supports the general norm of holding officials accountable. "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main"

Strengthens what signal? The local coverage does not say anything about "crashing out". It states that the council has voted to terminate the contract after an initial approval, in response to public opposition, and publishes a dissenting statement from one of the councilmembers in full.

The author could have amplified that non-sensational article and tied it in with the Youtube clips and other non-sensational articles he found; there's good journalism lurking in here. But instead he wanted to be sensational.

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#44

Post by johnnyanmac »

bob001 wrote: post #38
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the municipal policy ALPR debate generally does boil down to people who have a principles opposition to technology specialized for surveillance, and other people who believe it's no different from the cell towers that already track you. Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township.

> Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township. I suspect this happens a lot more often than people assume. It does not take much to bribe people to change their minds based on the publicly known international spy/espionage cases. People will sell out their country for like $5k.

I think a lot about another comment from a while ago that donated 100 dollars or something to his city. That had his state govenor personally call him to thank him in a 5 minute call.

It's not a bribe, but if a govenor is placing his time @ 1200/hour for an individualized bow of gratitude, I can only imagine how cheap it is for a not good govenor to sell out for his own personal interests.

At the scale these tech trillionaires are working, why not throw a few pennies at some small councilman?

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#45

Post by gruez »

dawnerd wrote: post #25
ofjcihen wrote: post #3

[flagged]

The other day I half-jokingly said I was going to build a site to expose local council members for taking kickbacks and someone said "that isn't happening" It's literally happening and this story makes it really clear. I wish it was this easy to spot. It's usually Flock donating to some charity a council person is also a board member on

>It's literally happening and this story makes it really clear

A council member "crashing out" (ie. proposing some satirical bills) is "really clear" evidence of kickbacks? Seems like a stretch. At the very least I'd want evidence of some transaction having occurred, rather than "wow you strongly support something I can't possibly imagine anyone would support? You must be getting kickbacks!"

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#46

Post by johnnyanmac »

tptacek wrote: post #41
bob001 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's bribing a councilmember in an 800-person rural township. I suspect this happens a lot more often than people assume. It does not take much to bribe people to change their minds based on the publicly known international spy/espionage cases. People will sell out their country for like $5k.

First Law of Message Boards: bribery is fun to talk about, people just disagreeing about stuff and having little temper tantrums when they lose arguments is boring, ergo: bribery is everywhere.

> The First Law: Every forum is always in a state of constant decline.

> All forums start off good, enjoy a "honeymoon period" in which they continue to be good, and then steadily decline... from the point of view of each individual observer...

https://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2005/11/20/charles_rules_of_on...

I like this first law better.

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#48

Post by happytoexplain »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #16
arikrahman wrote: post #2

I was expecting the headline to be sensational but a crash out was exactly what happened. The bad faith non-sequiturs is the cherry on top.

[flagged]

You imply that the population number is the reason we shouldn't care, but then you say explicitly that it's the fact that we don't live there. Both seem nonsensical without further elaboration?

Re: After Town Bans Flock, Councilmember Crashes Out, Proposes Internet, Phone Ban

#49

Post by johnnyanmac »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #37
nemomarx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anecdotes about whether people like Flock cameras where they live are kinda useful, I think? maybe it'll inspire other city council votes elsewhere

Anecdotes about whether people like Flock cameras are useful. Anecdotes about how one specific guy who likes Flock made an overheated analogy are not useful. The author conflating the two is a dictionary-perfect example of sensationalism.

> Anecdotes about how one specific guy who likes Flock made an overheated analogy are not useful.

You haven't been on social media the last decade, have yoh? We're no longer in times where (if we ever were) of the most eloquent, subtle, balanced argument winning over elected representatives.

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