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Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

pacifichorticulture.org

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Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#41

Post by Maxion »

ch4s3 wrote: post #32
hnmullany wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic grown food is more nutritious and I'm glad we have a significant percentage of farms who have gone organic, but the yield gap is very well documented. Organic fertilizers release nutrients slowly and unpredictably and can't match artificial nitrogen for plant uptake. E.g. a 25% average yield penalty in this meta-analysis: Alvarez, R. (2022) ‘Comparing Productivity of Organic and Conventional Farming Systems:…

> Organic grown food is more nutritious This isn't categorically true if you're comparing the same variety of crop. Vaclav Smil does great work compiling data on this in his book "How to Feed the World". The overall environmental picture is also more complicated[1]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for...

One big problem here is that 'organic' as-in certified organic, means something very different from Real Organic (as coined by the Rodale Institute). And among people who try to grow more organically (as in with nature, not the certified mess big-ag created to steal the term) there is a wide variety of ways people do it in a wide variety of places that have a wide variety of history.

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#42

Post by Maxion »

sharedptr wrote: post #31
My_Name wrote: post #20

For my work, I spent roughly a year studying the mechanism of roots, on and off. The different routes for nutrient and water uptake, transport, the different types of fungus, the differing ways plants interact with those fungi. And, of course, this is without going into the nematodes and how the plant attracts specific species by emitting tailored carbohydrate packets to both attract the nematodes and feed fungal gro…

Is there q good book you’d recommend to learn about this topic? I know the basics of biology but never went too deep into the basics of plants fb I always wondered how they actually work. Kinda worried when I have to transplant something on how long they can stay without soil etc

Christine Jones has a lot of good talks on youtube.

e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3_w_Gp1mLM&pp=ygUUY2hpcnN0a...

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#43

Post by Maxion »

ch4s3 wrote: post #33
goda90 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regenerative agriculture advocates would argue that cultivating a permanent mycorrhizal fungi ecosystem in fields will lead to longer term yields and few if any inputs in the end. Adding a fungal product into a system that wasn't already conducive to natural growth seems like a recipe for minimal benefit. For anyone not familiar, look up Gabe Brown's talks on growing soil.

> would argue that cultivating a permanent mycorrhizal fungi ecosystem in fields will lead to longer term yields and few if any inputs in the end They should show up with data. My other concern is that regenerative farming advocates always seem to leave out labor inputs.

A lot of this is not about increased yield, but healthier more nutritious plants, a healthier soil that binds more carbon, a more diverse farmland supporting a more diverse set of insects and animals and so forth.

The monocropped modern agriculture is not only producing dead soil, farmers that become reliant upon exterior input supplied by global conglomerates (i.e. ther margins don't go to the person doing the farming, but everyone suppling the stuff the farmer needs), and causes a lot of damage to local ecosystems.

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#44

Post by ch4s3 »

Maxion wrote: post #43
ch4s3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would argue that cultivating a permanent mycorrhizal fungi ecosystem in fields will lead to longer term yields and few if any inputs in the end They should show up with data. My other concern is that regenerative farming advocates always seem to leave out labor inputs.

A lot of this is not about increased yield, but healthier more nutritious plants, a healthier soil that binds more carbon, a more diverse farmland supporting a more diverse set of insects and animals and so forth. The monocropped modern agriculture is not only producing dead soil, farmers that become reliant upon exterior input supplied by global conglomerates (i.e. ther margins don't go to the person doing the farmi…

> healthier more nutritious plants

No data I’ve seen supports that claim. In fact Vaclav Smil’s book “How to Feed the World” collects a lot of data refuting this claim.

> producing dead soil

If less land needs to be under cultivation this doesn’t matter. You can rewind or reforest old disused agricultural land.

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#45

Post by ch4s3 »

Maxion wrote: post #41
ch4s3 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Organic grown food is more nutritious This isn't categorically true if you're comparing the same variety of crop. Vaclav Smil does great work compiling data on this in his book "How to Feed the World". The overall environmental picture is also more complicated[1]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for...

One big problem here is that 'organic' as-in certified organic, means something very different from Real Organic (as coined by the Rodale Institute). And among people who try to grow more organically (as in with nature, not the certified mess big-ag created to steal the term) there is a wide variety of ways people do it in a wide variety of places that have a wide variety of history.

That doesn’t mean the food is more nutritious.

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#46

Post by Knucklebones »

My_Name wrote: post #20

For my work, I spent roughly a year studying the mechanism of roots, on and off. The different routes for nutrient and water uptake, transport, the different types of fungus, the differing ways plants interact with those fungi. And, of course, this is without going into the nematodes and how the plant attracts specific species by emitting tailored carbohydrate packets to both attract the nematodes and feed fungal gro…

For the cooked rice method, why tomatoes specifically? Is there something unique to them in fixing the fungi, or would any fast-growing crop with a robust root network do?

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#47

Post by goda90 »

ch4s3 wrote: post #33
goda90 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regenerative agriculture advocates would argue that cultivating a permanent mycorrhizal fungi ecosystem in fields will lead to longer term yields and few if any inputs in the end. Adding a fungal product into a system that wasn't already conducive to natural growth seems like a recipe for minimal benefit. For anyone not familiar, look up Gabe Brown's talks on growing soil.

> would argue that cultivating a permanent mycorrhizal fungi ecosystem in fields will lead to longer term yields and few if any inputs in the end They should show up with data. My other concern is that regenerative farming advocates always seem to leave out labor inputs.

Gabe Brown says he uses cover crops, pastured poultry, and managed grazing on the same land as his primary crop and gets more calories per acre than monoculture farms, but also he has no chemical inputs, his soil is getting richer, and there's far less impact on the environment. And it's not like he doesn't have large farming equipment to do the work with. There's a learning curve and a risk factor in switching, but the alternative is to be dependent on variable fertilizer costs and government subsidies forever while the soil is depleted.

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#48

Post by grosswait »

troyvit wrote: post #36
My_Name wrote: post #20

For my work, I spent roughly a year studying the mechanism of roots, on and off. The different routes for nutrient and water uptake, transport, the different types of fungus, the differing ways plants interact with those fungi. And, of course, this is without going into the nematodes and how the plant attracts specific species by emitting tailored carbohydrate packets to both attract the nematodes and feed fungal gro…

Hey can you share any papers you've published on both of these topics? My partner just finished her Master's thesis in a similar vein and in her direct conversations with farmers and they have seen similar frustrating dynamics using fertilizer in their fields. She would like to share your work with them.

I’ve come across this YouTube channel and found it interesting. But only as a lay person. I’d be interested if your partner found this content credible. https://youtube.com/@soilworksllc-gsrcalcium

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#49

Post by hnmullany »

ch4s3 wrote: post #32
hnmullany wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic grown food is more nutritious and I'm glad we have a significant percentage of farms who have gone organic, but the yield gap is very well documented. Organic fertilizers release nutrients slowly and unpredictably and can't match artificial nitrogen for plant uptake. E.g. a 25% average yield penalty in this meta-analysis: Alvarez, R. (2022) ‘Comparing Productivity of Organic and Conventional Farming Systems:…

> Organic grown food is more nutritious This isn't categorically true if you're comparing the same variety of crop. Vaclav Smil does great work compiling data on this in his book "How to Feed the World". The overall environmental picture is also more complicated[1]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for...

I don't see any on data on nutrition in that reference.

Organic grown food tends to be higher in anti-oxidants and secondary metabolites, possibly because the plant immune system is activated more frequently due to better microbial biodiversity. From what I remember at least - it doesn't maintain any advantage in macronutrient density (carbs/nitrogen etc.)

Re: Mycorrhizal Fungi, Nature's Key to Plant Survival and Success

#50

Post by greenie_beans »

ch4s3 wrote: post #44
Maxion wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this is not about increased yield, but healthier more nutritious plants, a healthier soil that binds more carbon, a more diverse farmland supporting a more diverse set of insects and animals and so forth. The monocropped modern agriculture is not only producing dead soil, farmers that become reliant upon exterior input supplied by global conglomerates (i.e. ther margins don't go to the person doing the farmi…

> healthier more nutritious plants No data I’ve seen supports that claim. In fact Vaclav Smil’s book “How to Feed the World” collects a lot of data refuting this claim. > producing dead soil If less land needs to be under cultivation this doesn’t matter. You can rewind or reforest old disused agricultural land.

reads one book about agriculture
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