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'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

theguardian.com

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#41
post #3

The problem is that, apparently, abusing people wholesale is profitable.

Drug dealing is profitable. Chattel slavery was exceptionally profitable. To allow profitability to be our measure of permissibility is to sacrifice civil society at the altar of enterprising tyrants. Economics should never be a substitute for ethics.

Oh man. Don't google "sackler family" or "purdue pharma".

[EDIT: Added after that one person upvoted this comment.]

Slavery was big in the south because there wasn't enough low-skill labor to feel threatened. The north didn't care for it as much because a higher percentage of labor was what we would call semi-skilled or skilled today. That labor was FREAKED OUT about the idea of slaves taking over their jobs and they were able to organize before being eaten by the capitalist leviathan.

I'm pretty sure there were more abolitionists in the north than the south, I don't think your average northerner cared about the plight of southern slaves other than the institution being a threat to their livelihood if it moved north.

If you were making the assertion moral concerns or ethical behaviour eventually influenced american capitalism, I disagree. The capitalist monster acts "moral" or "ethical" because at the current time, to do otherwise is invite political dissolution. I fear the shadowy cabal of capitalist masters will move to reinstate chattel slavery. We did not respond with outrage when red-lining disenfranchised large portions of the populous or when usury was slipped back in with high credit card APRs and payday lending. We are asleep.

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#42
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was profitable for the slave owners. History is not a Paradox game where there is rational top down control.

Profitable/unprofitable is the wrong way of looking at it, because it implicitly ignores opportunity costs. Putting your money in a savings account at a big bank might be "profitable" in the sense you're getting paid some meager interest rate (eg. 0.1%), but it's definitely not the best option, like a money market fund or equity ETF. What OP probably meant was that slavery was worse than the alternatives, like puttin…

Then why didn't slave owners sell all their slaves and put the money in savings accounts?

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#43

“Capitalism” isn’t a real thing; it’s sort of like using the term “transubstantiation”. For someone outside of the religion, it doesn’t mean much. What we really mean when we say “capitalism” is just people freely engaging in agreements together. In such a free society, people will hurt and trample on each other. The right move is to rely on the Republic to represent our interests and prevent that trampling from cros…

Capitalism is not the same as free trade, in fact it's quite often antithetical. Capitalism means something like an economic system that is controlled by capital, or by the people with the most capital. And of course they use their control to give themselves more capital, not to allow competition.

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#44

“Capitalism” isn’t a real thing; it’s sort of like using the term “transubstantiation”. For someone outside of the religion, it doesn’t mean much. What we really mean when we say “capitalism” is just people freely engaging in agreements together. In such a free society, people will hurt and trample on each other. The right move is to rely on the Republic to represent our interests and prevent that trampling from cros…

> What we really mean when we say “capitalism” is just people freely engaging in agreements together.

That is untrue.

Capitalism the private ownership of production. It's a set of behaviors and legal protections[state enforcement] that allow companies to be bought, sold, and owned. It's defined by a number of constituent elements: private property, profit motive, capital accumulation, competitive markets, commodification, and wage labor.

It is not synonymous with simple free association.

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#45
> Voters turn towards fascist leaders when democracy no longer serves workers, Kurz says.

And yet fascist leaders don't serve workers any better, they serve work. I suspect the descent into facism is not because of the workers' sentiment about democracy, but because of the forces that are severing the service too.

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug dealing is profitable. Chattel slavery was exceptionally profitable. To allow profitability to be our measure of permissibility is to sacrifice civil society at the altar of enterprising tyrants. Economics should never be a substitute for ethics.

>Chattel slavery was exceptionally profitable. it wasn't. Slave economies are exceptionally unprofitable and unproductive. To take the US as an example. Liquid wealth, i.e. capital, was vastly larger in the North than in the slave owning states, the industrial output of New York exceeded the entire Confederacy and it was that profitability, wealth and mechanized agricultural production that did them in. Even Marx rec…

None of that implies slavery was not profitable. You got richer by owning slaves. You got a lot of profit out of them.

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chattel slavery was exceptionally profitable. it wasn't. Slave economies are exceptionally unprofitable and unproductive. To take the US as an example. Liquid wealth, i.e. capital, was vastly larger in the North than in the slave owning states, the industrial output of New York exceeded the entire Confederacy and it was that profitability, wealth and mechanized agricultural production that did them in. Even Marx rec…

True, but "better than slavery or feudalism" isn't a winning tagline. Nor should it be an excuse for letting capitalism tear down civil society as it has been doing in the US recently.

I'm going to start singing the Internationale here in a second.

(not snarky. I'm feeling pretty revolutionary after that last comment.)

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#49
All revolutionary fervour aside, I'm a fan of Kurz. My bread is buttered more on the David Harvey side, but Kurz is no fool. I'm not sure the headline "Capitalism has to become more humane" is the best distillation of his message.

Every billionaire is a policy failure.

Re: 'Capitalism has to become more humane': a Stanford economist on big tech

#50

All revolutionary fervour aside, I'm a fan of Kurz. My bread is buttered more on the David Harvey side, but Kurz is no fool. I'm not sure the headline "Capitalism has to become more humane" is the best distillation of his message. Every billionaire is a policy failure.

Also... Money is Theft and The Economy is a Lie. Education inoculates you against new facts. Our meritocratic democracy ensures government by the mediocre.

As Paul Virillo once quipped, "the invention of the ship was also the invention of the shipwreck." And we appear to have shot the ensign who was looking out for icebergs.

"They Live" was a documentary. "Idiocracy" is far too optimistic to be accurate. Reflexive modernity has made Ballard's "High Rise" into a love story.

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