Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Freelancing, half a year in.

alanhollis.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#41

Post by jiggy2011 »

Swizec wrote: post #19
jiggy2011 wrote: post #10

So, how does one work at all with multiple programmers and no version control? Are you creating patch files and manually merging them (like Linux used to do)? Or are you just using a shared FTP and keeping a spreadsheet of who is using which file at any particular point? The amount of discipline and organisation required to use either of these methods would appear to be far higher than that required to sit down for a…

The first thing I do when starting a new project is get everyone on git. If the project is far along and is using svn, I can live with that ... sort of. The next thing I do is explain that I will be spending more time for coding upfront because I will introduce testing into the project. These are not negotiable.

Do you retrofit tests to old code? If so how do you deal with spaghetti that at first glance appears almost untestable, insist on a refactor?

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#42

Post by krmmalik »

joss82 wrote: post #15
Alan01252 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person works on any one file at a time. To make sure you're working on the latest version you have to remember to download the latest copy from the live server. No I'm not joking, and yes I know how unbelievably terrible this is, but it does happen.

I worked for a very (very) large french website that does not use version control internally. Mostly because most of the code is owned by a single guy and he does not see the problem with that. Note the 'ed' at the end of 'work'.

I worked for a small company for the last few years, and although the company was small the codebase was quite big. Despite my many attempts out of desperation, they wouldn't listen. And the irony is, I'm not even a developer - But i knew it was needed.

The excuse cited was always that version control was impossible with languages that compile (we were on .Net) - I'm sure there's a response to that, but I didn't know what the response was, and just decided to leave in the end (amongst hundreds of other reasons)

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#43

Post by jiggy2011 »

Alan01252 wrote: post #22
jiggy2011 wrote: post #18

What non programming skills have you found most useful for freelancing apart from general business stuff? For example when I have looked at freelance web programming jobs, especially for smaller companies who don't have an in house team they seem to also expect you to do the design work. Do you have other freelancers that you sub-contract out to, do some yourself or stick to strictly scoped (programming only) project…

I explain very clearly that I am not a designer right from the start. Again I've lost projects to digital agencies because of this, which is sad, and is another problem I'd like to solve but haven't yet. The biggest non programming skill I have, and something that I appear to be okay at, is in face to face meetings. I've not yet walked out of one meeting where I haven't then got a job. There's probably a few things t…

How do you explain the value add that you provide or do you stick mainly to marketing yourself in terms of selling a certain skill per hour?

I ask mainly because of recent patio11 posts about emphasizing value in terms like "I can increase sign ups by x% by doing Y". This would seem to require a lot of experience and analytical/stats knowledge that a programmer might not necessarily possess however.

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#44

Post by Alan01252 »

Swizec wrote: post #19
jiggy2011 wrote: post #10

So, how does one work at all with multiple programmers and no version control? Are you creating patch files and manually merging them (like Linux used to do)? Or are you just using a shared FTP and keeping a spreadsheet of who is using which file at any particular point? The amount of discipline and organisation required to use either of these methods would appear to be far higher than that required to sit down for a…

The first thing I do when starting a new project is get everyone on git. If the project is far along and is using svn, I can live with that ... sort of. The next thing I do is explain that I will be spending more time for coding upfront because I will introduce testing into the project. These are not negotiable.

I'd be interested to know how you sell git to your clients.

I have listed all the positive benefits of version control in detail to my clients and still have the idea rejected due to it being an "unnecessary complication"...

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#45

Post by mgkimsal »

krmmalik wrote: post #42
joss82 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a very (very) large french website that does not use version control internally. Mostly because most of the code is owned by a single guy and he does not see the problem with that. Note the 'ed' at the end of 'work'.

I worked for a small company for the last few years, and although the company was small the codebase was quite big. Despite my many attempts out of desperation, they wouldn't listen. And the irony is, I'm not even a developer - But i knew it was needed. The excuse cited was always that version control was impossible with languages that compile (we were on .Net) - I'm sure there's a response to that, but I didn't know…

I'm not even close to understanding why version control is impossible with compiled languages. I use version control with Java/Groovy all the time.

Version control works best on plain text documents, but you can certainly check in binary assets to version control repos. I've done it even with CVS back 12 years ago, although IIRC it was a pain - SVN was somewhat easier, git is simple (re: binary files).

Actually, the simpler response is the .NET ecosystem has their own version control stuff (Team Foundation Server at very least - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/ms181368.asp...).

Software devs not using version control should set off as many alarm bells as an accountant that tries to keep everything in their head, or doesn't keep receipts. Obviously it set off those alarms for you - it's just sad that the developers themselves didn't see it.

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#46

Post by Alan01252 »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #43
Alan01252 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I explain very clearly that I am not a designer right from the start. Again I've lost projects to digital agencies because of this, which is sad, and is another problem I'd like to solve but haven't yet. The biggest non programming skill I have, and something that I appear to be okay at, is in face to face meetings. I've not yet walked out of one meeting where I haven't then got a job. There's probably a few things t…

How do you explain the value add that you provide or do you stick mainly to marketing yourself in terms of selling a certain skill per hour? I ask mainly because of recent patio11 posts about emphasizing value in terms like "I can increase sign ups by x% by doing Y". This would seem to require a lot of experience and analytical/stats knowledge that a programmer might not necessarily possess however.

When I say I'm not marketing myself correctly, it's exactly this point I'm talking about.

At the moment my value add for my clients is my previous experience and my communication skills. I try to reply to emails as fast as I can, that alone sets me apart from most other freelancers.

I would love to be able to sell myself in similar terms to the way patio11 does, but as you rightly state it takes a lot of experience that I for one don't have, yet.

That being said, I've read so much information about on-line conversions techniques, have run successful (profitable) affiliate PPC campaigns, got on the front page of hacker news multiple times and done other things that maybe 99% of other people on the planet have never done.

I'm sure there's something in there that I can sell as a value add.

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#47

Post by vignesh_vs_in »

espinchi wrote: post #36
vignesh_vs_in wrote: post #21

I have always wanted to do freelancing but refrained from it. Below are my skills, Official: I got 5 years of experience in various fields, 1 year as manual tester for a Mainframe/JSP based application. 2 years as an automation test engineer, which is a fancy way of writing scripts to do automatic tests. 2 years as a tools developer for an automation framework, work involves writing java/Oracle based tools to do a sp…

No, you won't be a fool if you try. You have an application with more than a million downloads in the Android market. And your Juicy Fun game looks very nice. I'd say you have a fairly solid portfolio. Do you write all these applications all by yourself?

Ya, i do all of the design/code/test of the those applications/games. My designing skills are not so good :D.

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#48

Post by krmmalik »

Alan01252 wrote: post #22
jiggy2011 wrote: post #18

What non programming skills have you found most useful for freelancing apart from general business stuff? For example when I have looked at freelance web programming jobs, especially for smaller companies who don't have an in house team they seem to also expect you to do the design work. Do you have other freelancers that you sub-contract out to, do some yourself or stick to strictly scoped (programming only) project…

I explain very clearly that I am not a designer right from the start. Again I've lost projects to digital agencies because of this, which is sad, and is another problem I'd like to solve but haven't yet. The biggest non programming skill I have, and something that I appear to be okay at, is in face to face meetings. I've not yet walked out of one meeting where I haven't then got a job. There's probably a few things t…

What kind of design work do they expect from you?

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#49

Post by ayers »

Jabbles wrote: post #7
jaggederest wrote: post #5

£20k ~ $31k To save anyone else having to do the math. Also, yes, your rates are still very low, Mr. Hollis, although I suppose it depends on how many days you worked on billable projects. I would expect to see more like £40k for six months given your CV.

For comparison, top† graduate software engineers (in London) will be on ~£35k/year. †Not like "won IOI" top, but I imagine Google/Microsoft/FB etc. has a graduate starting salary around that.

I work in London and from the job interviews I have been to and the people I know working in London, £35k for a graduate is very high. As others have stated, jobs in finance/banking will be paying more and might be closer to £35k.

Re: Freelancing, half a year in.

#50

Post by krmmalik »

Alan01252 wrote: post #44
Swizec wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I do when starting a new project is get everyone on git. If the project is far along and is using svn, I can live with that ... sort of. The next thing I do is explain that I will be spending more time for coding upfront because I will introduce testing into the project. These are not negotiable.

I'd be interested to know how you sell git to your clients. I have listed all the positive benefits of version control in detail to my clients and still have the idea rejected due to it being an "unnecessary complication"...

If the opportunity arises, try the following approach: Tell your client " I use some very specific tools for my work as they increase my productivity and efficiency, and as part of the work i deliver to you, i'd like to continue using those tools to deliver to you. You'll receive multiple benefits as a result, and i can name them if you wish, but don't wish to bore you with technical details"

Just try it. Not making any promises, but i think you'll have better luck if you do. Sounds like you're either framing things wrong, or allowing certain people to make the decision when it should be yours to make ;-)

Post reply on HN