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Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

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Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#41

Post by joe_mamba »

EA-3167 wrote: post #33
joe_mamba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, like so many others, I managed to beat NFS Underground 1 and 2, Most Wanted and Hot Pursuit using only the budget brand e-waste special keyboard, no analog controllers. IIRC some of the top NFS players also used the keyboard instead of fancy racing syms. So it's probably possible to control real life cars with a keyboard, provided they implement dedicated input filtering, PID controllers or Kalman filters, and t…

Unless you beat them without crashing once that’s not impressive in a real world context. Life doesn’t have saves to reload.

You can't win internationally competitive racing games if you crash since your competition who doesn't crash will beat you.

So if they win competitions with a keyboard it means they can drive without crashing.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#42

Post by UltraSane »

nomel wrote: post #30
AlotOfReading wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's setup are a bunch of desks with steering wheels crammed together in a normal call center [0]. Waymo doesn't do teleoperation, but other companies exist that have like Vay. Compare their setup [1]. [0] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuE3ie2WcAAyeWs?format=jpg&name=... [1] https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6828f0...

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

Waymo absolutely does NOT do teleoperation in the sense that a remote driver is directly controlling steering, braking, and acceleration. Instead they at most route the car. The self-driver is directly controlling the car at all times.

"In the most ambiguous situations, the Waymo Driver takes the lead, initiating requests through fleet response to optimize the driving path. Fleet response can influence the Waymo Driver's path, whether indirectly through indicating lane closures, explicitly requesting the AV use a particular lane, or, in the most complex scenarios, explicitly proposing a path for the vehicle to consider. The Waymo Driver evaluates the input from fleet response and independently remains in control of driving. This collaboration enhances the rider experience by efficiently guiding them to their destinations.

The Waymo Driver prioritizes the safest course of action in a given moment. In some situations, even with inputs from fleet response, the Waymo driver may come to a stop if it determines that is the safest course of action. Once the car comes to a stop, it can autonomously resume operations, and in other instances, it may require additional support from Waymo Roadside Assistance to retrieve the vehicle manually. "

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#43

Post by Ferret7446 »

cyanydeez wrote: post #17
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

i think the bigger problem is the mechanical turk "solution" where remote drivers are suppose to suddenly be a driver in corner cases as if thats a safe fallback

This is not how it works. The vehicle autonomously stops and/or pulls over, and then a remote driver takes over. Control is not handed over to a remote driver while the vehicle is barreling down the road and "jesus take the wheel"

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#44

Post by [deleted] »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #34
nomel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo does do teleoperation [1], and they defend its use [2]. Human fallback isn't something to be ashamed about. AGI doesn't exist at the moment. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/waymo-defends-use-remote-...

The second paragraph of your link says Waymo does not do teleoperation. "Much like phone-a-friend, when the Waymo vehicle encounters a particular situation on the road, the autonomous driver can reach out to a human fleet response agent for additional information to contextualize its environment. The Waymo Driver does not rely solely on the inputs it receives from the fleet response agent and it is in control of the…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#46

Post by JumpCrisscross »

beAbU wrote: post #45
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even as a fall back Why this?

Latency

> Latency

One, a low-latency fallback beats no fallback. Two, at least for Waymo, the system is engineered to be high latency. Back-up drivers seldom directly drive the car, and when they do, it's not at the last minute. Instead, they give high-level instructions the car actuates.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#47

Post by bdangubic »

ryandrake wrote: post #37
Toutouxc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would personally prefer if companies didn’t offer services that simply don’t or can’t work as advertised.

Weirdly, in 2026, this is a controversial opinion.

this is 100% because we are under full-on cultism. you say anything anti-Tesla and army of elon defenders will go after you immediately. none of them would put their kids in one of these “robo”taxi “F”SD shits but they will defend elon/tesla mercilessly

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#48

Post by plqbfbv »

FireBeyond wrote: post #21
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

> Starlink is also available, np I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

> I would NOT be using Starlink for remote vehicle teleoperation even as a fall back.

I had to use Starlink last year, and latency was way more acceptable than expected even when under load (I did try to analyze and remove bufferbloat). Considering Tesla could likely get priority bandwidth from SpaceX basically for free, that would mean good latencies (I had 90ms tops in speedtests). Anyway you tell the car where to go, but it's the car following the path you draw for it and following traffic rules and collision avoidance, you're not directly driving the car. Even 1 second latency with 2s round-trip would likely not be a problem in these conditions.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#49

Post by xboxnolifes »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #23
pixel_popping wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving skill (and road manners) is also a serious issue, not only Internet quality (it's mostly solved nowadays with dual 5G/dual residential, Starlink is also available, np), getting a driver license is basically just paying a fixer for $200 (equivalent in PHP) and even if you attend the school genuinely and all, it's still super easy versus the west.

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states. My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to…

In hindsight, getting my driver's license was uncomfortably easy in the US. We crammed the answers right before the written exam as a class, I did 8(?) hours driving with an adult, and the practical exam was 2 left turns, a k-turn, 2 right turns, and parallel parking between 2 cones.

Re: Tesla reveals two Robotaxi crashes involving teleoperators

#50

Post by dghlsakjg »

Neywiny wrote: post #26
dghlsakjg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be overestimating how hard it is to get a license in the states. My test was literally pay private driving school operator $50, pull onto a four lane road, change lanes, change lanes back, turn right three times to get back to the road, turn left, park successfully between the lines nose in, …and here’s a piece of paper for the DMV to give you a license. Maybe ten minutes, and have never had anyone check to…

Not just the test though. In some states you need approaching 100 hours of signed off driving with an experienced driver (honor system though) and a certified course

What state? This source seems to indicate that 70 hours is the extreme upper limit, with some states allowing as few as 6.

https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/teenagers/graduated-lice...

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