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Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#41

Post by comradesmith »

dmurray wrote: post #10

What was special about the first nuclear test, rather than the thousands of others, at least hundreds of which were also in the Nevada desert? Obviously it's historically significant, and the new forms of matter were first discovered there , so that's why trinitite is named after the site. But 80 years later, wouldn't we expect the other bomb sites to have just as many interesting chemical reactions?

It’s probably just that more people are looking at the trinity site because of said historic significance

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#42

Post by corkybeta »

gapan wrote: post #35
frereubu wrote: post #28

> The clathrate’s “cage” shapes are 12-sided dodecahedrons and 14-sided tetrakaidecahedrons made of silicon atoms... Totally OT but if "dodeca" means 12, why isn't 14 just "tetradeca"? What's the "kai" for?

As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive pa…

Four and twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_a_Song_of_Sixpence

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#43

Post by shever73 »

gapan wrote: post #35
frereubu wrote: post #28

> The clathrate’s “cage” shapes are 12-sided dodecahedrons and 14-sided tetrakaidecahedrons made of silicon atoms... Totally OT but if "dodeca" means 12, why isn't 14 just "tetradeca"? What's the "kai" for?

As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive pa…

I think the three-and-ten, four-and-ten way of expressing numbers is primarily an ancient Greek thing. The modern numbers are expressed differently (δεκατέσσερα / dekatessara for fourteen, for example). In a lot of older European languages 11 and 12 behaved irregularly. You could argue that they do in English too (we don't have oneteen and twoteen).

I haven't read of any particular reason for this, but I'd posit that numbers up to twelve were more commonly used in everyday life, so shorter, irregular forms were easier to use and remember. Much like many of the irregular verb forms in spoken language happened because they were so commonly used.

The ancient Greek system also gave us triskaidekaphobia - the fear of the number 13.

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#44

Post by HighGoldstein »

normie3000 wrote: post #30
frereubu wrote: post #28

> The clathrate’s “cage” shapes are 12-sided dodecahedrons and 14-sided tetrakaidecahedrons made of silicon atoms... Totally OT but if "dodeca" means 12, why isn't 14 just "tetradeca"? What's the "kai" for?

kai means "and" I guess like asking why 120 is said "one hundred and twenty" in some dialects. Maybe that's how 14 and 12 are written in Greek.

The Greek term would be decatetrahedron.

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#45

Post by normie3000 »

HighGoldstein wrote: post #44
normie3000 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kai means "and" I guess like asking why 120 is said "one hundred and twenty" in some dialects. Maybe that's how 14 and 12 are written in Greek.

The Greek term would be decatetrahedron.

Apologies - Ancient Greek!

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#46

Post by gapan »

shever73 wrote: post #43
gapan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive pa…

I think the three-and-ten, four-and-ten way of expressing numbers is primarily an ancient Greek thing. The modern numbers are expressed differently (δεκατέσσερα / dekatessara for fourteen, for example). In a lot of older European languages 11 and 12 behaved irregularly. You could argue that they do in English too (we don't have oneteen and twoteen). I haven't read of any particular reason for this, but I'd posit that…

Indeed, in ancient greek they put the "δέκα" (ten) part second. Τρία και δέκα (13), τέσσερα και δέκα (14), πέντε και δέκα (15), etc, but 11 and 12 was (and still is in modern greek) irregular, έντεκα (enteka) and δώδεκα (dodeka) respectively.

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#47

Post by gapan »

fhars wrote: post #40
gapan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive pa…

Nobody would be so weird as to put the "four" first when pronouncing "14". :-)

Haha, right!

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#48

Post by beeforpork »

gapan wrote: post #35
frereubu wrote: post #28

> The clathrate’s “cage” shapes are 12-sided dodecahedrons and 14-sided tetrakaidecahedrons made of silicon atoms... Totally OT but if "dodeca" means 12, why isn't 14 just "tetradeca"? What's the "kai" for?

As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive pa…

> "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg)

Ancient Greek spans several centuries of sound shifts and many dialects. It cannot easily be simplified into one specific pronunciation, particularly not one that is based on your specific dialect of English. Wiktionary has /kǎi̯/, /ˈkɛ/, /ˈcɛ/ and /ˈce/ for "καὶ".

Re: Strange crystals found inside wreckage from the first nuclear bomb test

#50

Post by leonidasrup »

autoexec wrote: post #23
Towaway69 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re a product of nature, it’s mistaken to believe we are above nature or that nuclear weapons aren’t also part of nature. We’re also very much dependent on nature and natural forces. So everything we do is, even if many steps removed, still an act of nature.

Diamonds are also product of nature, but when we grow them in a lab they aren't often considered to be "naturally formed". It's just that the lab we used in this instance was part of the Jornada del Muerto.

Very small diamonds can be created using detonation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detonation_nanodiamond

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