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Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

dylan.gr

41–50 of 103 posts

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#41
post #31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just work less. Problem solved!

That's the true South European spirit! So many problems in life would become easier reducing the working hours .

In Germany it's a common prejudice that people in southern Europe work less. Data shows otherwise: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d...

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#42
post #9

As someone who lives in Spain, a country that also has a tradition of siestas (that's where that name comes from after all), I have a lot of doubts and I think people romanticize the idea too much. First of all I have no doubts about the health benefit of siestas, but in the current society they have some issues. When I was younger I hated siestas because I had energy and everything was closed, you couldn't do anythi…

Spaniard here. The 'siesta' is just to combat - avoid - midday heat, specially in southern regions.

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#43
post #4

I think you, the breadwinner, did NOT go to the shops. Your wife did. I don't know when 9-5 started, but it kinds of smacks of the British being that regimented. By contrast, my observation is that MOST of the world's population still works from about an hour after dawn until early afternoon, or sometimes until dusk, depending on their age, job, station in life and the general level of resources they have versus what…

Not a historian of work, but my understanding is that one point where 9-5 started was Henry Ford when he realised that longer working days led to a higher turnover of workers in a tight labour market. There's an interesting podcast that touches on it here: https://www.ppfideas.com/episodes/where-are-we-going%3F-the-...

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, sleep before midnight is the most important factor. If I need my brain working well the next day, all I need to do is go to bed by 10PM. Even if I wake at 5:30, it will be fine. BTW, nights were I have dream recall afterwards, are the best. Anyone else have made the same observation?

Building on this, I’ve observed nightmares (I.e., particularly intense, terrifying, or otherwise challenging dreams) guarantee a good next day.

Interesting. I've found that nightmares are strongly influenced by what I've eaten. Cabbage gives me nightmares almost certainly, for instance. Generally for me dream content seems heavily related to sensations in general : sounds, smells, bowel movements, cold, heat, weird limb positions...

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#45
post #31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just work less. Problem solved!

That's the true South European spirit! So many problems in life would become easier reducing the working hours .

Funny you say that when Spain, Portugal, and Greece work more hours than Germany or the Netherlands.

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#47
post #9

As someone who lives in Spain, a country that also has a tradition of siestas (that's where that name comes from after all), I have a lot of doubts and I think people romanticize the idea too much. First of all I have no doubts about the health benefit of siestas, but in the current society they have some issues. When I was younger I hated siestas because I had energy and everything was closed, you couldn't do anythi…

> And if you work keep in mind the shift is 8 hours, so how do you fit siesta in it?

This is a big part of the problem with the modern interpretation in Spain and nearby countries. It used to be that most folks lived close to their work, and could go home for lunch+siesta in-between split shifts. As commutes are increasingly common, this doesn't work at all.

Given generally low employment numbers and the widespread desire for a shorter, more productive workweek, one could hope we start being able to pay folks enough to just work one each of the split shifts, but we're obviously a ways away from that.

Similarly, the school day seems to have grown longer to keep kids busy during their parents workshifts. Where previously many kids could attend a local school in their own village, and walk home for lunch (as kids in rural France were still doing when I was a kid).

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#48
post #9

As someone who lives in Spain, a country that also has a tradition of siestas (that's where that name comes from after all), I have a lot of doubts and I think people romanticize the idea too much. First of all I have no doubts about the health benefit of siestas, but in the current society they have some issues. When I was younger I hated siestas because I had energy and everything was closed, you couldn't do anythi…

Also a huge difference between summer temperatures in, say, Galicia and Andalucía. Siestas make some sense in somewhere like Sevilla when temperatures top 40 degrees and it's hard to do anything anywhere that's not air conditioned, and particularly manual labour outside, but in Coruña when it's high 20s to mid 30s at most it's just not the same. (Although climate change is dragging both of those top temperatures up,…

Ourense's ~40 C summer temps would like a word. North to south even just within Galicia makes quite a difference

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#49
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the true South European spirit! So many problems in life would become easier reducing the working hours .

In Germany it's a common prejudice that people in southern Europe work less. Data shows otherwise: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d...

I'm not sure "average hours worked" is really a useful stat. At least I have trouble deriving any insight from it, it just mashes too many things into the same value. How much of the change is from the length of the typical work week (40h, 38h and 36h are all somewhat common work weeks for fulltime workers), how much is from part time work, and how much is from the mismatch between official work week and actual time worked (goes in either direction, some have 60h jobs on 40h pay)

What I'd really want to see is a histogram of weekly hours worked per worker for each country

Re: Solar-based sleep patterns compared to modern norms

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd buy your meals in diners instead of buying food to cook, if you were someone non-wealthy working in a factory or an office. You probably wouldn't be buying that much outside of this: for cigarettes, newspapers etc. there were newstands you could shop at while running to work. For big purchases, I imagine you would get a day off. Buying a fridge would be a major event, for example. But also one I'd expect people…

This is not how any class of people lived during any age of history.

Is it not? The whole idea that young single people should live alone in apartments that have dedicated kitchens, and cook food for themselves would be considered pretty absurd in most prior eras.
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