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50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

fortune.com

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Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#41

Post by niwtsol »

jeffbee wrote: post #33
nvitas wrote: post #17

just as a thought experiment, say you're an entrepreneur, how would you solve this problem? whether it AI, Data Centers, EVs...I'm seeing this problem more and more, we need more energy/power. I'm curious to see what others think are possible viable solutions.

Entrepreneurs know exactly how to solve this issue: panels, batteries, and wires. But it isn't so simple when you face 20 years of permitting between BLM, USFS, tribes, states, counties, cities, and individual litigation. If you want an example of how bad this is look at the permitting timeline for SunZia in New Mexico and its transmission line to California. Gas pipelines don't have the same problem because the fede…

Has there been any attempt for some sort of legislation that would allow utility solar or electric lines to be included in that?

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#42

Post by SoftTalker »

infecto wrote: post #13

This is an interesting problem. I have been wanting to dig deeper on some of the complaints around water and power. This one is unique though. Doesn’t read much like a problem so much with data center growth as it does with Liberty mismanaging their business/assets. For almost 20 years liberty acted as nothing more than a transmission operator with very weak agreements on power generation. They should have been figur…

I would think that a lot of rural electrical cooperatives are "nothing more than a transmission operator" i.e. they own/manage/maintain the lines from their providers out to their customers, but don't have the capital or expertise to run generating plants.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#43

Post by Glawen »

nradov wrote: post #28
pstuart wrote: post #2

Power should be a public utility, just like water and sewage.

You can make a reasonable case for transmission and distribution to be a government operated public utility. But we need aggressive private industry competition on the generation and storage side in order to prevent shortages.

Why ? Many country have public generation without any shortages.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#44

Post by nradov »

Glawen wrote: post #43
nradov wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a reasonable case for transmission and distribution to be a government operated public utility. But we need aggressive private industry competition on the generation and storage side in order to prevent shortages.

Why ? Many country have public generation without any shortages.

And do those countries have large and rapidly growing demand? A free market is the only reliable way to respond effectively to changing demand signals. Economic central planning always fails over the long term.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#46

Post by infecto »

nvitas wrote: post #17

just as a thought experiment, say you're an entrepreneur, how would you solve this problem? whether it AI, Data Centers, EVs...I'm seeing this problem more and more, we need more energy/power. I'm curious to see what others think are possible viable solutions.

I still think decoupling generation from transmission is part of the problem and I don’t know if I love the construct of a single legislated monopoly.

In this specific case, Liberty and constituents should have come up with a plan on the first contract term for generation. Maybe it meant spinning up their own generation plant within CA or NV.

It’s not a popular idea here but I still think energy markets can help solve this problem. If you have multiple producers and a market rate for electricity you can more quickly incentivize new generation and innovation compared to the single operator monopolies that exist.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#47

Post by greenie_beans »

nvitas wrote: post #17

just as a thought experiment, say you're an entrepreneur, how would you solve this problem? whether it AI, Data Centers, EVs...I'm seeing this problem more and more, we need more energy/power. I'm curious to see what others think are possible viable solutions.

become a politician and make electricity a public resource, as it should be

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#48

Post by infecto »

SoftTalker wrote: post #42
infecto wrote: post #13

This is an interesting problem. I have been wanting to dig deeper on some of the complaints around water and power. This one is unique though. Doesn’t read much like a problem so much with data center growth as it does with Liberty mismanaging their business/assets. For almost 20 years liberty acted as nothing more than a transmission operator with very weak agreements on power generation. They should have been figur…

I would think that a lot of rural electrical cooperatives are "nothing more than a transmission operator" i.e. they own/manage/maintain the lines from their providers out to their customers, but don't have the capital or expertise to run generating plants.

“nothing more than a transmission operator with very weak agreements on power generation” don’t take the quote out of context now.

I would bet most coops have fairly concrete contracts on generation. This one is unique because they were using usage from a grid they have no standing in. Weak agreement, folks should have been figuring it out 20 years ago.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#49

Post by pengaru »

freediddy wrote: post #14

This is like the movie Chinatown, where people were fighting over water, but now it's all about electricity. It sounds like Lake Tahoe residents kicked the can down the road and didn't care about electricity for so long that now they have to pay the piper. I think it's entire just that they have to bear the costs of their own electricity.

I've noticed there's a pattern of behavior with folks living in the forested parts of California where they expect everyone else to subsidize their impractical choice on where to put a house.

Extreme wildfire risks? let everyone else shoulder the cost, don't deny our fire insurance.

Power delivery infra costs (and associated risks, see wildfires)? don't make us actually pay for this, we're all in this together guys!

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#50

Post by lunar_rover »

ageitgey wrote: post #7

It's weird to read an article about how AI is ruining Lake Tahoe, with a map illustrating the problem, when the map itself has the world's most generic "100% generated by Claude" UI ever. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the article using the Claude map. It's just deeply funny somehow.

On mobile the map prevents the user from scrolling down, you need to drag the padding area instead. Google maps embed doesn't have this issue as it requires two fingers to pan.
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