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First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

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41–50 of 102 posts

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#41
post #37
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is super complex and cheap to update. Engineering like this, however difficult, is not that complex and it's very expensive and difficult to update. We take advantage of the situation. If we invented some way of e.g. "growing" structures that turned out to be much cheaper we'd probably adapt our attitude to changing them.

When you say Engineering is not that complex, have you taken into account corrosive sea water, pressure, currents, what it means to make repairs and maintainance down there etc? It is difficult, because it deals with a very complex world full of physics, chemistry and even biology in a way that does not allow errors.

Engineering doesn't seem complex because there are centuries of learnings behind it. Those learnings become rules and suddenly it appears "simple" because no one debates whether to use wood or concrete when building an undersea tunnel!

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#42
post #24

That horrible website overrides web page scrolling and disables pinch zoom. Bad!

First it gives you a popup saying i'm not in the US and would I like to visit the global site? In my experience that means they send me to the other site that doesn't even have the article i clicked to, or even if it has it they can't redirect me to it.

Very much depends on the site - certainly there's plenty that are annoying in the way you describe, but there's also plenty (I wouldn't be surprised if either side were the majority) that will take you to the exact same content on the more local version of the site.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#43
post #23

Can anyone from the region comment on the status of plans for the landside linkup on the German side? Last time it made the press it was because the project was at risk of seeing the Danish tunnel finished before Germany could tell not even when but if a linkup would ever make it across bureaucratic hurdles. Almost like a Darien Gap made exclusively of red tape.

You mean like the Brenner Base [Rail] Tunnel which will connect Austria and Italy? Germany seems to be stuck at the "studying" stage before they improve the relevant rail links on the Grafing–Rosenheim–Kufstein route. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel

[deleted]

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#44
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The building of this tunnel will likely create way more CO2, than can be saved by providing a more direct route and avoiding ferries (german source ... and very critical of the project) https://www.nabu.de/umwelt-und-ressourcen/verkehr/verkehrsin... Personally I like the concept of having a more direct access to scandinavia and see lots of other positive long term effects.

From a Danish perspective I don't really see any positive long, or short, term gains from the Fehmarn tunnel, but I also live in the wrong part of the country. This is a tunnel for Sweden, Norway and Copenhagen, it's moving the center of everything in Denmark closer and closer to the center of Copenhagen, completely disconnecting the rest of the country. A few days ago a new train start running Copenhagen to Oslo, a…

For a 7 hour journey to Copenhagen you must be living in Skagen.

> completely disconnecting the rest of the country

If there's some secret plan to demolish the bridges to Fyn and rip up the roads and railway tracks on Jutland do inform us.

Otherwise, the Århus to Hamburg train will continue to exist.

> It's a multi-day journey with a layover within the country if I want to leave by rail.

No, it isn't.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for how little maintenance this will need? I imagine there will be teams of people continually employed for regular maintenance and operations. Concrete does develop “bugs” in the form of cracks, chips, or other damage that needs to be repaired. While software engineering certainly deals with different constraints, I don’t think this is a fair comparison. When stakes are low (as they are for most…

Definitely I am making a broad assumption with many specifies where one can say "but what about X,Y,Z". Certainly, there are buildings that fall down and bridges collapse but what is the trend? Is software engineering getting better or worse? From the linked article: > And I would say that the success of AI coding agents has proved once and for all that we had successfully built an engineering discipline so strong th…

> Certainly, there are buildings that fall down and bridges collapse but what is the trend?

The trend is that they don’t because there’s a continuous maintenance happening on all of those. There’s an army of people doing checks and repairs all the time. Even then, it happens, like in Genoa.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#46
post #27

> The Fehmarnbelt Tunnel will complete the high-speed rail connection between Stockholm and Hamburg. Not really, mostly cause Sweden don't want to build high speed rail, even when EU would have paid for a big share of it.

Most of the Malmö Stockholm line is 200km/h plus (see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Swedish_railw...) and that’s generally seen to be where “high-speed” starts. But yes, they could do a lot better.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#47
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The building of this tunnel will likely create way more CO2, than can be saved by providing a more direct route and avoiding ferries (german source ... and very critical of the project) https://www.nabu.de/umwelt-und-ressourcen/verkehr/verkehrsin... Personally I like the concept of having a more direct access to scandinavia and see lots of other positive long term effects.

From a Danish perspective I don't really see any positive long, or short, term gains from the Fehmarn tunnel, but I also live in the wrong part of the country. This is a tunnel for Sweden, Norway and Copenhagen, it's moving the center of everything in Denmark closer and closer to the center of Copenhagen, completely disconnecting the rest of the country. A few days ago a new train start running Copenhagen to Oslo, a…

Skagen to Flensburg is 7 hours? It’s a painful number of connections, sure, but hardly multi-day. Even going on to Hamburg only adds another couple of hours onto the journey.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#48
Hmm, website owners can apparently mess with my settings and make their site "smooth scrolling". Ugh. It's like having a nightmare where I'm trying to scroll as hard as I can but I feel like I'm scrolling through mud.

It actually feels like they have a speed limit to scrolling, I'm used to giving my MX Master 3S a big spin and being at the bottom of a page near instantly, here it takes time.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#49

That horrible website overrides web page scrolling and disables pinch zoom. Bad!

The official site’s news story is at https://femern.com/press/news/the-first-element-of-the-fehma... . But that wasn’t available when I originally submitted this (which was a few days ago, it just hit the second-chance pool).

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#50
post #35

I wonder what the relationship is between the word engineering in the sense used here and software engineering ? I am amazed how bad software engineering has become with constant updates of software because of “improvements” or because there has to be constant release cycle else the software is unmaintained or bad. While this kind of engineering is designed to be untouched for the next 15 to 30 years. Minimal mainten…

Do you have a source for how little maintenance this will need? I imagine there will be teams of people continually employed for regular maintenance and operations. Concrete does develop “bugs” in the form of cracks, chips, or other damage that needs to be repaired. While software engineering certainly deals with different constraints, I don’t think this is a fair comparison. When stakes are low (as they are for most…

> Do you have a source for how little maintenance this will need?

In Germany, twice a year inspection is mandatory for infrastructure [1] but this is only a visual inspection. Once every 6 years you got a large inspection [2] that includes a full go over everything including functionality checks plus a review of documentation (if it is still up to code) and of accident documentation, as well as a "knock test" on every m² of surface [3]. Fire safety systems are checked every quarter [4].

And out of these reports then you get action items. Depending on the severity of findings, it can be anything from "someone needs to do this until the next major inspection" to "holy cow stop ALL traffic NOW".

[1] https://www.stbapa.bayern.de/service/medien/meldungen/2023/2...

[2] https://www.fba.bund.de/DE/Meldungen/20230201_Tunneluntersuc...

[3] https://www.merkur.de/lokales/muenchen/baustellen-besuch-sta...

[4] https://www.autobahn.de/aktuelles/aktuell/tunnelwartung-im-b...

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