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Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

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Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#41

Post by daigoba66 »

NZ_Matt wrote: post #37
SquareWheel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this too, but often I need to use my mouse to select a control panel item or file. That's very annoying. Why would they get rid of universal search from Windows 7?

tab + down then enter also does that. or Windows-W opens the settings search directly Windows- F opens the file search directly

Universal, I think, also implies single unified search. OSX has this, iOS has this, Android has this, Windows 7 has this. Heck even Windows Vista has this. Windows 8? Nope. This is the most frustrating part of using Windows 8.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#42

Post by potatolicious »

NZ_Matt wrote: post #39
kyro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you expect the everyday user to learn that? Sometimes I keep programs open for days with work I'm hoping to get back to. I'm surprised that that's the everyday solution. Shockingly bad.

Android and IOS both use exactly the same solution for their multitasking.

And a good idea it is, except the quality of first-party apps isn't up to making that transition.

I cannot speak for Android, not being a regular user, but I have never, ever seen a first-party on iOS get its own UI stuck. It may crash rarely, but it will never get itself into a state where the user is powerless to do anything with it (short of killing it).

Most iOS users I've met aren't aware of the kill-app functionality, and they don't need to, because first-party apps don't have egregious enough bugs like "button to return to main menu reacts but does nothing".

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#43

Post by ryanmolden »

daigoba66 wrote: post #16
ryanmolden wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metro apps, or whatever they are calling them nowadays, do take over the entire screen, desktop apps are as they have always been and can be opened as many as you like, and arranged as you like given your screen real-estate. I routinely have 5-10 windows open at any given time on my desktop that is running Windows 8.

To me it was pretty clear that this article was primarily reviewing the "modern UI" part of Windows 8. I think your comment reiterates the point that the "modern UI" has no place on the traditional desktop. I too use Windows 8 everyday and have successfully avoided this new UI (except for the now, in my opinion, broken desktop search). Windows 8 is not a failure, but this new UI might be.

Yes, I just wanted to make it crystal clear for people that had never used it, and thus would be even less aware of the "split" (or perhaps misunderstanding it). If people dislike Windows 8 that is fine, I am kind of lukewarm on it myself, I just prefer people to come to those conclusions off actual use experience and not FUD or mis-quoting/mis-understanding an article. Not saying anyone in this conversation did, but I have seen enough posts on the internet from people that appear to have never used X, decrying X based on some FUD/misinformation, I try to nip the opportunity in the bud when I can.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#44

Post by nxn »

kyro wrote: post #36
nxn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken they don't expect every day users to learn that on account of metro apps automatically being suspended and then closed for you based on your usage. EDIT: This describes a metro app's life cycle: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh46492... The basic idea is that if you aren't using an app it receives a "suspend" event allowing it to save its state so that it can resume where it…

And how do you expect the everyday user to learn that? Sometimes I keep programs open for days with work I'm hoping to get back to. I'm surprised that that's the everyday solution. Shockingly bad.

Sorry, I added a more complete explanation in an edit.

To reiterate though: the only thing the user would have to learn is to forget about having to close apps themselves because it will be done for them as needed. This would not prevent you from working on something over a period of multiple days, on and off, so long as the developer implemented their app correctly. The app simply gets a clear request to save it's data to disk so that when it gets resumed or re-launched it can load it back and pretend it was running the whole time. This whole thing is pretty much transparent to the user with the exception that you might see the "splash" screen when going back to an app you haven't used in a while. I have not used metro extensively, but I have not experienced any problems with this approach when playing around with win8. If anything I actually kind of liked not having the care about having too many apps open and doing "cleaning" sessions like I do with regular running applications I stopped using.

Anyway, said behavior only applies to metro apps, desktop apps still operate as you'd expect.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#45

Post by ronyeh »

I spent some time using Windows 8 at the local Costco, and agree with most of Nielsen's points.

In case you need alternative ways to exit an app, try:

Alt + F4. This old-school method still works!

Hit the Windows Key on your keyboard. Treat it like the Home key on an iDevice or Android tablet. This backgrounds the app, but does not terminate it. Then, you can type the name of another app and your menu will filter down rapidly. Hit enter to launch the new app.

All the new gestures make sense on a tablet (except the swipe in from the left, but back out again to show your active apps). But the gestures are terrible when you're on mouse + keyboard. I wish Windows 8 laptops had nice big multitouch trackpads, so that you can do things like 3 & 4-finger swipes, and pinches, like with OS X.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#46

Post by toufka »

NZ_Matt wrote: post #17

For what it's worth I've been using Windows 8 since the RP and have been very happy with it. The key point that a lot of reviews fail to emphasize is that evrything that worked in Windows 7 is still there and works exactly how it always has. The removal of Aero and subtle improvements to explorer are nice updates for the desktop experience. The start menu was always kind off useless so I didn't take long to get used…

If you have to search for it - you have to know what it is. This reminds me of DOS.

I've used Macs forever - but without animosity I use Windows a lot at work. I needed to paste some raw text from my program into a text file. Um. How? I don't remember the name of that windows app thing that can do that. I do remember it was a 'utility'. But where is that folder? Start menu? - nope. Metro menu? Nope. Search? What for? go through C:Program Files - nope. Crap, how do I paste this copied block of text into a new text file? Oh - I found it! Metro Apps - right click (on nothing) to bring up a menu. Click on the single item in the menu - 'Show all Applications'. And somewhere in that unordered list is that app (textpad) into which I can paste my text...

WTF!?

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#47

Post by lelandbatey »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #29

This seems a little harsh, to say the least. Among other things, he seems to be criticising Microsoft for both the early efforts of third-party devs (live tiles) and because users take time to grasp some of the new UI fundamentals (charms bar). Both of those issues will disappear quickly as the OS picks up steam. As an iPad owner myself, I am nothing but intrigued and excited by 8's tablet interface. It seems like it…

Indeed, I'd like to voice my support for the Windows 8 change. I do agree that there are some real issues inherent in the UI (simplicity to a fault), but I'm not bothered by them. What's awesome for me is that the Win8 change hardly actually affected me at all!

In my experience, the Win32 side of Windows 8 is still there with all the same power and functionality of Windows 7 (with plenty of improvements!). Right now, WinRT and Win32 are actually quite separated, and that lets me enjoy both without stepping on either sides toes.

Given that Microsoft wanted to introduce a radically new set of features/functionality, I feel like they did the best job that they possibly could have, and I'm having a great time!

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#48

Post by iamtherockstar »

The thing about Windows 8 is that it makes me uncomfortable because I'm technologically competent and feel lost all the time. It makes me feel like I don't know anything about computers when it's been my career for 15 years. It's similar to using vim for the first time, where you hit something accidentally and don't know what mode you're in, or how to get back out.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#49

Post by JohnsonB »

davidlumley wrote: post #27
zanny wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It trainwrecked the day buisinesses decided not to use it, which was the day they got rid of booting to the traditional desktop with a start button. It isn't a compelling purchase at all, nobody will go out and actively seek a Windows 8 device, and desktop / notebook computers have had decreased sales since everyone has one now and they are "good enough" for media consumption and text / spreadsheet editing. The only…

Am I the only person who thinks the lack of a start button and a 'traditional desktop' are non issues? The lack of a start button/desktop is not a usability issue in and of itself - it's everything else that makes it such a nightmare.

>The lack of a start button/desktop is not a usability issue in and of itself

Tell that to non-technical users who have trouble remembering to use the start button when it's staring them in the face, they need that visual cue at the very least.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#50

Post by actsasbuffoon »

kristianp wrote: post #40

"When running web browsers in both device areas, users will only see (and be reminded of) a subset of their open web pages at any given time." Setting firefox as my default browser helped here. (Not going to work on RT of course). Clicking a link in the Metro mail app takes you to the desktop instance of the browser, unlike chrome and ie, which also seem to ignore any sessions you have open in the desktop version.

That reminds me of another gripe. You can only launch IE in "Metro" mode when it is your default browser. It took me about 40 minutes to figure that out on Friday.
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