Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 248 posts

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#41

Post by kirb »

raincole wrote: post #17
benterix wrote: post #7

> Browsers and operating systems are increasingly expected to gain access to language models.[0] Are they? [0] https://github.com/webmachinelearning/prompt-api/blob/main/R...

Browsers: Chrome (proposed this Prompt API) Operating Systems: Windows (built-in Copilot), MacOS, iOS (Apple Intelligence) So it's >90% desktop browser and OS, plus >30% mobile OS. Yes, I think it's very safe to say "browsers and operating systems are increasingly expected to gain access to language models."

These features are enabled by default, and in the case of iOS/macOS, desktop Chrome, probably also Copilot+ PCs, download 4 - 7 GB local models without properly explaining this to users. This doesn’t confirm any demand because if you just don’t use the features and don’t fill up your device, you may never notice.

I think this API is probably fine, but only if the user already has a model downloaded and wants these features. Naturally, case in point, Chrome quietly downloads Gemini Nano without any opt-out except through group policy. Things like this and Microsoft’s recent admission that they’ve overindexed on Copilot features in Windows make it increasingly difficult to trust that users actually want more than a few killer AI features, most of which are just ChatGPT.

Anecdotally, non-technical friends and family members know about ChatGPT and increasingly Gemini, get frustrated by Copilot, and don’t know Apple Intelligence exists.

https://superuser.com/questions/1930445/can-i-delete-the-chr...

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#43

Post by tomashubelbauer »

austin-cheney wrote: post #40

I wonder if this is a generational thing of fresh young people that already cannot live without LLMs versus crusty old people that don’t want to require a super computer just to run a web browser that violates all their privacy. To me this sounds like the point where people start looking at and developing alternatives to the browser/web.

IME young people mostly hate AI.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#44

Post by 8NNTt8z3QvLT8tp »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #8
croes wrote: post #4

So the next anti trust case for the EU. Chrome is clearly dominating the browser market and now they try to abuse that (again)

It's exhausting having such reflexive thoughtless ragging anytime Chrome is mentioned. Oh no! Chrome is trying to enhance user agency again! Oh no! Chrome is trying to make the web better for end users! Mozilla's concerns aren't totally bogus, I'm not going to try to laugh them out of the room. But their pearl clutching & belly-aching about "oh no what if not all implementations of ai prompts work exactly the same" f…

It's not pearl clutching to suggest that websites will build around quirks of a specific model and then we'll be stuck with it forever. This is an issue for future Google as much as it is for Mozilla and Apple.

We had WebSQL which defactor relied on a specific DB implementation, sqlite, and I suspect it also essentially couldn't be updated because people relied on the quirks of a specific version of sqlite.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#46

Post by concinds »

benterix wrote: post #7

> Browsers and operating systems are increasingly expected to gain access to language models.[0] Are they? [0] https://github.com/webmachinelearning/prompt-api/blob/main/R...

Sure. macOS, iOS and Windows have local model APIs for third-party devs. Chrome is trialing it. Firefox uses models to generate alt-text, but no API.

In theory it's useful. If devs can rely on local models, it's more private and decentralized, they don't need to funnel money to AWS or Anthropic. There are low-stakes use cases that only make sense if they're local (available offline) and free.

But in practice I've seen zero adoption of Apple Foundation Models in native apps. I wonder if any Mac/iOS devs have anything to share on this.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#47

Post by izacus »

darkwater wrote: post #20
youre-wrong3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only have yourselves to blame. Chrome made the internet better but everyone put their fingers in their ears about it getting worse at the same time.

Which Internet did make better?

The one you're using every day filled with web apps that runsl securely without you dowloading sketchy binaries or being locked into walled garden app stores.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#48

Post by kilroy123 »

tomashubelbauer wrote: post #43
austin-cheney wrote: post #40

I wonder if this is a generational thing of fresh young people that already cannot live without LLMs versus crusty old people that don’t want to require a super computer just to run a web browser that violates all their privacy. To me this sounds like the point where people start looking at and developing alternatives to the browser/web.

IME young people mostly hate AI.

The young kids I know who are into tech love AI. Albeit this is from a small sample size.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#49

Post by bakugo »

tomashubelbauer wrote: post #43
austin-cheney wrote: post #40

I wonder if this is a generational thing of fresh young people that already cannot live without LLMs versus crusty old people that don’t want to require a super computer just to run a web browser that violates all their privacy. To me this sounds like the point where people start looking at and developing alternatives to the browser/web.

IME young people mostly hate AI.

Do they really? Hating on AI slop is a common sentiment on social media, but remember that the opinions you see on social media are often not representative of what the general population thinks at all.

I keep hearing stories about how homework is now useless because every student just gets ChatGPT to do it for them, and from personal experience, I'm inclined to believe them.

Re: Mozilla's opposition to Chrome's Prompt API

#50

Post by jaffathecake »

austin-cheney wrote: post #40

I wonder if this is a generational thing of fresh young people that already cannot live without LLMs versus crusty old people that don’t want to require a super computer just to run a web browser that violates all their privacy. To me this sounds like the point where people start looking at and developing alternatives to the browser/web.

I think the objection here is unrelated to the love or hate of LLMs. It's about the viability of this particular proposed open web API.

I personally use LLMs for coding assistance, and some home automation stuff, but I do not think this particular API is good for the web.

Post reply on HN