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An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

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Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#41

Post by [deleted] »

bluGill wrote: post #26
stronglikedan wrote: post #19

The thing is that I can get just as good if not better ones (metal) for $7 all day long, and not have to spend time sourcing and assembling materials, and I don't even have to leave my house to do it.

I'm not sure what you are buying, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were done in a factory that does medical grade quality control. While the odds are a medical problem from a non-medical grade stethoscope seem low, it still seems a couple bucks is worth the price. (if we are talking thousands I'd ask for a deeper drive into what that really gets you)

[deleted]

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#42

Post by nomel »

jcims wrote: post #22
colinbartlett wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see that a "brand name" stethoscope is $100+ and even generic ones are $30.

I'm shocked that you're shocked lol. $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device that has to meet regulatory standards and will be used daily, possibly for years, by healthcare providers to do patient assessments? A 3D printed option is going to require a 3D printer, appropriate filament and should be unit tested to ensure it's within spec. The durability is going to be suspect no matter what. It's an awe…

> has to meet regulatory standards

Genuinely curious, what standards exactly, for a stethoscope?

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#43

Post by devilbunny »

Lalabadie wrote: post #37
sonofhans wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I had my blood pressure taken by a nurse; this was when they did it manually, squeezing the pressure cuff bulb by hand and listening with a stethoscope. The doctor came in later, saw the numbers and frowned, and took my pressure again. She (both were women) ended up with a reading much more within my normal range. I asked, joking, “So are you just better than her?” “No,” my doctor replied, “She’s better. Sh…

The pressure cuff + stethoscope combo is called a sphygmomanometer. It's a pretty fascinating piece of technology: A heartbeat is only audible in the earpiece when the cuff is compressing between someone's systolic and diastolic pressure. To use it, you get the cuff pressure high enough that you stop hearing a heartbeat in the earpiece. Start releasing pressure slowly. As it comes down, take note of where on the dial…

And if you use a mercury sphygmomanometer, you can actually see those pulses appear and then disappear. (It's harder to see them with a gauge-based one.)

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#44

Post by nomel »

sonofhans wrote: post #25
colinbartlett wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see that a "brand name" stethoscope is $100+ and even generic ones are $30.

Years ago I had my blood pressure taken by a nurse; this was when they did it manually, squeezing the pressure cuff bulb by hand and listening with a stethoscope. The doctor came in later, saw the numbers and frowned, and took my pressure again. She (both were women) ended up with a reading much more within my normal range. I asked, joking, “So are you just better than her?” “No,” my doctor replied, “She’s better. Sh…

Or, maybe you have "white coat syndrome" [1]. This is closely related to "pretty lady syndrome".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_coat_hypertension

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#45

Post by duskwuff »

jcims wrote: post #22
colinbartlett wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see that a "brand name" stethoscope is $100+ and even generic ones are $30.

I'm shocked that you're shocked lol. $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device that has to meet regulatory standards and will be used daily, possibly for years, by healthcare providers to do patient assessments? A 3D printed option is going to require a 3D printer, appropriate filament and should be unit tested to ensure it's within spec. The durability is going to be suspect no matter what. It's an awe…

> $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device...

And one which is treated as a status symbol, at that. Part of the reason a good stethoscope costs more is because it looks nicer, not just because it works better.

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#46

Post by filoleg »

nomel wrote: post #42
jcims wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked that you're shocked lol. $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device that has to meet regulatory standards and will be used daily, possibly for years, by healthcare providers to do patient assessments? A 3D printed option is going to require a 3D printer, appropriate filament and should be unit tested to ensure it's within spec. The durability is going to be suspect no matter what. It's an awe…

> has to meet regulatory standards Genuinely curious, what standards exactly, for a stethoscope?

A commercially sold hospital stethoscope is a legally marketed medical device made under a manufacturer quality system, with labeling/instructions, device listing/registration obligations, adverse-event/complaint processes, cleanability expectations, liability, warranty, consistent materials, and repeatable acoustic performance.

An open-source 3D-printed stethoscope is a cool project, but unless it is produced and controlled as a medical device, it is not equivalent to what hospitals are buying for daily patient care.

Personally, if I was a hospital or a doctor, it would be a no-brainer for me to go with the commercially sold stethoscopes. All those factors I listed above, if neglected, can end up costing a lot more in terms of consequences. I would rather pay a fixed extra overhead price per unit to sleep well, knowing I don't have to worry or think about those factors at all. And, I would assume, most of the patients would be in favor of that as well.

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#47

Post by Johnny555 »

sonofhans wrote: post #25
colinbartlett wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see that a "brand name" stethoscope is $100+ and even generic ones are $30.

Years ago I had my blood pressure taken by a nurse; this was when they did it manually, squeezing the pressure cuff bulb by hand and listening with a stethoscope. The doctor came in later, saw the numbers and frowned, and took my pressure again. She (both were women) ended up with a reading much more within my normal range. I asked, joking, “So are you just better than her?” “No,” my doctor replied, “She’s better. Sh…

I have a much higher BP when I first go to the office than after I'm sitting in the exam room for a bit.

Usually they call me back to the hallway where they check my weight, then have me sit in a chair and check my temperature, pulse ox and BP, with maybe only a minute sitting down before they do the BP check. My BP is usually in the "hypertension" range there.

But, if they come back to the exam room after I've been sitting in that quiet room for 5 or 10 minutes and check my BP , it's almost always in the "normal" BP range (same as what I see when I check it at home).

Doctor calls it "white coat hypertension", I call it "rushed BP check in the hallway".

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#48

Post by nomel »

filoleg wrote: post #46
nomel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has to meet regulatory standards Genuinely curious, what standards exactly, for a stethoscope?

A commercially sold hospital stethoscope is a legally marketed medical device made under a manufacturer quality system, with labeling/instructions, device listing/registration obligations, adverse-event/complaint processes, cleanability expectations, liability, warranty, consistent materials, and repeatable acoustic performance. An open-source 3D-printed stethoscope is a cool project, but unless it is produced and co…

What standard exactly, for a stethoscope?

I know nothing of this, but it looks like stethoscopes are Class 1 medical devices with 501(k) exemption, and fall under the "Good manufacturing practices" guidelines of Quality System Regulation (21 CFR 820), but that seems pretty squishy.

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#49

Post by harvey9 »

duskwuff wrote: post #45
jcims wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked that you're shocked lol. $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device that has to meet regulatory standards and will be used daily, possibly for years, by healthcare providers to do patient assessments? A 3D printed option is going to require a 3D printer, appropriate filament and should be unit tested to ensure it's within spec. The durability is going to be suspect no matter what. It's an awe…

> $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device... And one which is treated as a status symbol, at that. Part of the reason a good stethoscope costs more is because it looks nicer, not just because it works better.

You can get a basic littman for not much. I could afford one when I was a rookie EMT and I've still got the same one many years later.

Re: An open-source stethoscope that costs between $2.5 and $5 to produce

#50

Post by lukko »

nomel wrote: post #42
jcims wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked that you're shocked lol. $100 for a somewhat specialized, durable medical device that has to meet regulatory standards and will be used daily, possibly for years, by healthcare providers to do patient assessments? A 3D printed option is going to require a 3D printer, appropriate filament and should be unit tested to ensure it's within spec. The durability is going to be suspect no matter what. It's an awe…

> has to meet regulatory standards Genuinely curious, what standards exactly, for a stethoscope?

In the UK it would be Class Im - so low risk device that sits outside the body, with a measuring functionality.
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