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Is college worth the cost?

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Is college worth the cost?

#41
Name one other place where are surrounded by smart, thinking people of the same and opposite sex constantly for 4 years.

Name one other place where the law basically doesn't apply and you are basically encouraged to take huge risks with your friendships, your learning, and your life (sometimes).

Sure, college is expensive. Sure, you have to do a lot of things you don't want to do. But, you also don't have many opportunities to learn things that are totally impractical from true experts in the field. Take advantage. Love every minute. Get out of there and do something amazing.

Last, a lot of the people I met in college are incredibly smart and amazingly successful. Some of them work on the most innovative software around. Some write for world-renowned publications. And some of them just have really rich parents. No matter what, if you go to a good university, you will meet people that will help you someday later. Yah, privilege is a bitch, but if you have the opportunity to have it, why not?

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#42
post #40

People should be apprenticed at 13, and should enter professions at about 18. Only jobs requiring memorization of a large body of prior work (medicine or science) need more than that.

Well, I liked your comment. High school has mostly been a waste of time for me. I don't see why kids can't get apprenticed or go to college or do something productive at that age.

High school wasn't all that bad, and hell, I learned some things - a lot my own, but a lot from good teachers, too. Something I noted when I hit a rough spot a few months ago was that there is no teenage angst when you're working from six AM till eight PM doing hard labor. Not that I was asking for it!

I think it's simply a matter of human nature; given too much leisure, or too high a quality of life, our brains will still be physiologically unable to feel a proportional level of happiness. At the chemical level, there are only so many neurotransmitters to go around.

Anyway, the point of all this is that I would have been thrilled to get a "real" job at that age, but I'm not sure that was right. I was always very much in a hurry to finish school, and now that I have a job and am in college early, I keep wondering if, and feeling like, I've made a terrible mistake.

And a separate point about the article: The cost of college is almost entirely the fact that it uses up the four most productive years of your life. That most people choose college almost on instinct surprises me. Forget buying a house or a car - this decision is orders of magnitude more expensive. If you want to have an extraordinary life, you're going to be on that path by the time you're 22, or you're not. It's worth noting that Einstein made his contributions to physics at the age of 25, and even that was somewhat old to develop something so innovative. At the same time, while he stayed influential and productive in physics, he never published anything as revolutionary. At a certain age - I'm inclined to think it's usually in the early to mid twenties, based on anecdotal evidence only - you just lose that ability. If you go to college, you're basically saying "I'll trade my ability to change the world for a predictable life." And honestly, right now that's a trade I would like to make, but I'm just not doing it, and I don't know why.

And besides, every time I put this in writing I am struck by the incredible level of arrogance and hubris in my words (I'm no freaking Einstein!) and I really don't feel like writing again for a long time.

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#43
post #41

Name one other place where are surrounded by smart, thinking people of the same and opposite sex constantly for 4 years. Name one other place where the law basically doesn't apply and you are basically encouraged to take huge risks with your friendships, your learning, and your life (sometimes). Sure, college is expensive. Sure, you have to do a lot of things you don't want to do. But, you also don't have many opport…

Because it makes you feel guilty?

I find the feelings of guilt and responsibility are very much intertwined. It seems the best-adjusted people don't feel either.

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#44
post #5

Yes it is. I believe that the best investment you can ever make is in yourself. Colledge cost me $40K and I have made more than $160K in 2 years after Colledge working. I have made an 33% ((40/120) * 100) on my investment in myself and its still growing. The growth of my investment in myself is infinite and way bigger than any other investment.

The _price_ of college is only a small fraction of the _cost_ of college.

And yes, I learned this in an economics class... in college.

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#45

Take it from someone who quit. If you want to climb the corporate ladder than definitely go to college and sell your parents house to finance it. It will be worth it. I've seen it work. If you want to build your own ladder (as what I am doing now), then I suggest you check that college thing again. I look around and I see my friends who graduated from school and they all make 1.5 to twice what I make a year, but not…

Cool post. Do you have a website going right now? What do you do?

I sort off have a website for the consulting stuff I do now, but because I sometimes get crazy here I would like to keep that aside. As for what I do, I had 2 jobs and left one lately. Now I am focus on my main one, as a part of a mobile software devel team ( I am not a coder, just a talker, but I sure know how to bring in deals ).

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#46
Here's some interesting numbers. Let's say you go to a college for four years and it costs $25,000/year, $100,000 total. To pay for it, you take out some college loans at 7% interest that have to paid back in 10 years. So, your loan payment is $1161.08/month. In total you'll pay $139,329 by the time the loan is paid off. So, you earn 1.2 million more over your life time than the non-college grad, but after the cost of college you're only ahead by about $1,060,000. I'm supposing here that by "over your lifetime" means until you retire, that is say from age 22 to age 65.

Now, suppose you don't go to college but instead you start working at 18. You apply yourself to your job, learn what you can on your own time, and by age 22 you've got four years experience and you've been promoted the point that you can sock away $1161.08 per month in savings. Say you do this for 10 years and keep the money in a conservative mutual fund that earns an average return of 7% per year. After the 10 years are over you've got $200,965 in savings. At this point, you stop investing. Even with no additional money, by the time you're 65 (33 years later) you'll have $2,011,064.27 or roughly $1 million more than the guy who invested his money in college.

Of course these are just some made up numbers. A lot of people who aren't motivated to go to college are probably also not motivated to save that much money and live that frugally. If college costs you less than $25,000 per year it might be worth it, or you might go into a profession that allows you to earn way more than $1.2 million more than the average high school grad. On the other hand, lots of colleges cost a good deal more than $25k/year. Also, the high school grad might invest his money more aggressively and earn more than 7% interest. It would be interesting to see where the crossover point is in terms of college cost, loan interest rate, investment interest rate, and so on. The point remains that a return of 1.2 million over 43 years on a $100,000 investment is pretty crappy (around 5.8% compounded monthly, slightly better than an online savings account)

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#47

People should be apprenticed at 13, and should enter professions at about 18. Only jobs requiring memorization of a large body of prior work (medicine or science) need more than that.

I think you got downmodded because you said kids "should be" apprenticed. It sounds coercive, and that rubs people the wrong way.

But... I strongly believe that a reasonably bright and literate high school sophomore could absolutely begin law school. On average, they probably wouldn't do as well as they would after college, because your writing, reading comprehension, and exam taking skills do improve in college.

But I actually think people would be very surprised with how strong a performance smart 15 year olds would show. I'm not talking genuises here, just pretty smart kids.

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#48
post #43
post #41

Name one other place where are surrounded by smart, thinking people of the same and opposite sex constantly for 4 years. Name one other place where the law basically doesn't apply and you are basically encouraged to take huge risks with your friendships, your learning, and your life (sometimes). Sure, college is expensive. Sure, you have to do a lot of things you don't want to do. But, you also don't have many opport…

Because it makes you feel guilty? I find the feelings of guilt and responsibility are very much intertwined. It seems the best-adjusted people don't feel either.

I try not to feel guilt about it. Rich white folks get what they want through privilege. Going to a top notch college is a great equalizer for everyone else who wasn't lucky enough to be born to the right parents - if you can get there.

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#49
post #6

This article includes one of the most misleading statistics concerning higher education: "People with bachelor's degrees... still earn an average of about $1.2M more than high school graduates over a 40-year career". Yes, there is a correlation between higher education and higher salaries -- no, this does not imply causation! There are many confounding factors: People who are more intelligent, have parent(s) who purs…

As noted, these influences can be very disentangle from any real-world analysis. There was an interesting study a few years back that looked at the "outcomes" of a cohort of people who had all been admitted to an Ivy League school. Part of the study group attended and graduated from the Ivy League school they were admitted to. The control group ended up matriculating elsewhere for whatever reason. Past studies showed…

I remember this article and I recall the conclusion it reached was that the students from poorer backgrounds benefited so dramatically because they were indoctrinated with the culture of the ruling class in the Ivy League and would likely not have been elsewhere.

Re: Is college worth the cost?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm glad we haven't formalized that system in the US.

You got a lot of upmods but I don't even understand your comment. What are you talking about?

In some countries (Germany for example), students have been herded into career tracks at a fairly early age. So, some 13 year old may be sent on a path towards becoming an auto mechanic, while another is guided off to become a surgeon or some other professional. I'm sure there are ways to break out of your track, but there is a big formalized system working against you.

In the US, someone can spend all of high school in auto shop, and still have a chance of changing directions and ending up with a successful career at 33 that some bureaucrat never would never have predicted 20 years earlier. If may take him longer than the kid whose parents and teachers were guiding them towards medicine or business from age 13, but the doors are open.

I think this is a strength of the US, both economically, and with respect to various liberal, democratic, egalitarian ideals. It isn't perfect though. There are certainly people would be happier and better off if they started learning a trade at an earlier age.

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