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If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

shankwiler.com

41–50 of 333 posts

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#41
post #9

Considerations: * many people (at least toddlers, people with dementia) are going to press blue roughly by accident. See the lizardman constant * other people will not want to be responsible for any deaths and will press blue out of a sense of moral imperative * many other people are going to take this into account and vote blue out of hopes we can save everyone You should vote blue.

Puzzles like this are based on assumptions like all participants are rational adults with their full faculties.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#42

Is there actually a real-world version of this game, that the author is alluding to buy not explicitly mentioning? Otherwise all I'm taking away from this article is that people don't think deeply about survey questions before answering them.

Thinly veiled political post.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#43
post #17

Hello, Blue Presser here. We learn something about humanity based on the results of the poll. It's naive to think that 100% of people will press the red button. Some people will die if red wins. I think pressing red is selfish and violent, in that it can result in the death of human life by their own unwillingness to cooperate. If we are not willing to work together in order to protect each other then I have a very p…

Does that mean that in rayiner's phrasing [1], you'd argue for "cooperating" with the other head shooters?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47913066

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#44
post #17

Hello, Blue Presser here. We learn something about humanity based on the results of the poll. It's naive to think that 100% of people will press the red button. Some people will die if red wins. I think pressing red is selfish and violent, in that it can result in the death of human life by their own unwillingness to cooperate. If we are not willing to work together in order to protect each other then I have a very p…

Why pessimistic? The miracle of capitalism is that it harvests the power of people pursuing their self interest for the greater good. Collectivist systems that rely on everyone sacrifying their self interest for the collectivity failed spectacularly in the past.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#45

This question has multiple layers of thinking: 1. People who can't read pick randomly. 2. People who can read, but are too dumb to model or care about other people pick red. 3. People with enough intelligence for basic cognitive empathy pick blue. 4. People a little smarter and think through game theory overall pick red, and think they are smart for doing so. 5. People smarter than #4 and capable of seeing the big pi…

Missing the layer where blue is my favorite color and therefore I will always choose blue. From this perspective, all other reasonings lack basic empathy and/or intelligence.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#46
post #18
post #8

So a 100% presses red and everyone survives too.

Are you also forcing children to press a button or not? Because the answer to this question changes things *a lot*.

What if you entertain the variant of the question where a percentage of red votes die in the event of a blue win? It makes pressing red less advantageous, but also it totally changes the moral balance depending on the percentage.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#47
The problem posted is being taken at face value by some and being interpreted outside of a vacuum for others.

The reality is that we don’t live in a vacuum and the framing of red vs blue is almost certainly not an accidental alignment with political colors. If you are in the US, voting blue is also highly correlated with broader empathy characteristics.

It’s telling that some folks think 100% voting one way is just as attainable as more than 50% voting a certain way. The strong irony here is that they themselves would likely not change their vote to help get to 100% no matter which direction that happened to be. This is also why we are roughly split in half with only a small percentage actually voting differently than their identity politics allow.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#48

This is like a prisoner's dilemma, but with no payoff for the risky option. In a prisoner's dilemma, you can choose a risky option (stay quiet), but the potential reward is that if the other prisoner also stays quiet then you both go completely free. But if one prisoner instead speaks up and accuses the other prisoner, the accuser gets a short sentence and the one who stayed quiet gets a max sentence. But in this sce…

Red is optimal from a self preservation perspective but is also the antisocial option. Picking blue saves everyone.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#49

This is like a prisoner's dilemma, but with no payoff for the risky option. In a prisoner's dilemma, you can choose a risky option (stay quiet), but the potential reward is that if the other prisoner also stays quiet then you both go completely free. But if one prisoner instead speaks up and accuses the other prisoner, the accuser gets a short sentence and the one who stayed quiet gets a max sentence. But in this sce…

They’re different scenarios. The prisoner’s dilemma is purely selfish. How do I maximize my own return? Cooperation is an option, but it’s still about maximizing your own return. This scenario leaves it open for people to choose to act selfishly by maximizing their own return, or selflessly by attempting to got maximize total return for everyone. But the choice required to maximize total return isn’t clear.

Re: If more than 50% press blue, everyone survives. Red pressers always survive

#50

This is like a prisoner's dilemma, but with no payoff for the risky option. In a prisoner's dilemma, you can choose a risky option (stay quiet), but the potential reward is that if the other prisoner also stays quiet then you both go completely free. But if one prisoner instead speaks up and accuses the other prisoner, the accuser gets a short sentence and the one who stayed quiet gets a max sentence. But in this sce…

You have it backwards. In prisoner's dilemma if both stay quiet they are still punished, just less so.
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