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When the cheap one is the cool one

arun.is

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Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#41

Post by ymolodtsov »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #31
gradstudent wrote: post #30

Weighing up a Neo vs Framework 12 for my kids. The Neo is nicer, but I'll probably get the Framework even though it's more expensive. Apple products seem to have a fixed shelf life; a certain number of years of support and then the machine is slowly incompatible with apps that have since moved on to newer versions of macOS. Meanwhile Framework supports Linux and is still providing hardware/software upgrade paths for…

Just my personal perspective, every Apple laptop I've ever owned has lasted 10+ years. Their phones may have some planned obsolescence, but I don't find that to be the case at all with their computers.

In my experience their phones last far longer than Androids. Only in the last few years Samsung and Pixel have switched to at least 7 years (now it's the question of whether the hardware will suffice).

Until it broke, I was still using my 2018 iPad just last year.

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#42

Post by izacus »

gradstudent wrote: post #30

Weighing up a Neo vs Framework 12 for my kids. The Neo is nicer, but I'll probably get the Framework even though it's more expensive. Apple products seem to have a fixed shelf life; a certain number of years of support and then the machine is slowly incompatible with apps that have since moved on to newer versions of macOS. Meanwhile Framework supports Linux and is still providing hardware/software upgrade paths for…

The question is not as much shelf life, as whether you want your kids to be builders or consumers.

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#43

Post by nottorp »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #31
gradstudent wrote: post #30

Weighing up a Neo vs Framework 12 for my kids. The Neo is nicer, but I'll probably get the Framework even though it's more expensive. Apple products seem to have a fixed shelf life; a certain number of years of support and then the machine is slowly incompatible with apps that have since moved on to newer versions of macOS. Meanwhile Framework supports Linux and is still providing hardware/software upgrade paths for…

Just my personal perspective, every Apple laptop I've ever owned has lasted 10+ years. Their phones may have some planned obsolescence, but I don't find that to be the case at all with their computers.

> every Apple laptop I've ever owned has lasted 10+ years

.. as long as you avoided the emoji keyboard era, or never used an emoji keyboard laptop outdoors or even with your windo open :)

I have laptops much older than the ~2018 that work perfectly. But not only the 2018's keyboard broke, but to add insult to the injury they used a display cable that was too short in that generation and that broke too.

That is Cook's legacy :)

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#46

Post by KaiserPro »

DanielHB wrote: post #36
KaiserPro wrote: post #35

The thing that keeps me questioning is the "its using binned parts" dialogue. I'm sure _some_ parts might be discards from the iphone 16, but the volume they had at launch to me suggests that not the story. I've read somewhere that they made/budgeted for 5 million laptops shipped this quarter/half. but if they are made from binned CPUs, that suggests at least 4-7% yeild loss for the original iphone CPU. Bear in mind…

> Bear in mind thats this 4-7% loss only counts dies that have just one broken CPU unit. There are many other failure modes as well. That just seems very very high. Is it? I thought the average for lastest-architecture chips was around 5%.

Sorry I was unclear about what "very high" meant.

From what I can see, one can expect about 80-90% yield per wafer, the bit that that doesn't make sense is that the "binned" narrative implies that of those broken parts of the wafer, 25-50% are usable with just one GPU disabled.

To me that sounds wrong, and far too high.

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#47

Post by red_admiral »

Gigachad wrote: post #10

Apple has been doing this for ages. The base tier one always gets the fun colors while the pro models get silver, grey, and maybe some muted blue. Not sure why they make the cheaper models cooler than the top tier ones. Maybe it's just too expensive to stock multiple colors of every product. The Neo has minimal customization options for specs so making it colorful is cheaper.

Market segmentation? High-end ones have to look "professional", I presume the thinking is you wouldn't give a serious boardroom presentation on a lime-colored laptop.

On the other hand, for students and schoolkids once you've solved "cheap", it's a plus to also tweak for "fun".

Speaking of market segmentation - this may vary by country but on https://www.apple.com/macbook-neo/ (US site accessed from EU VPN) if I scroll down a bit, what gender do you think the "blush" color is most associated with? Is it coincidence that the laptop is being held in a hand with painted nails? (And a wedding ring.)

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#48

Post by red_admiral »

FerretFred wrote: post #32
Gigachad wrote: post #10

Apple has been doing this for ages. The base tier one always gets the fun colors while the pro models get silver, grey, and maybe some muted blue. Not sure why they make the cheaper models cooler than the top tier ones. Maybe it's just too expensive to stock multiple colors of every product. The Neo has minimal customization options for specs so making it colorful is cheaper.

I got the citrus version because it made such a change from the usual. However, I'd love it if Apple could make some truly vibrant non-pastel colours like tangerine and lime devices they did in the early days.

Ah, fond memories of the original CRT iMacs. I think you could take off the color covering and replace it with a different one?

More color choices that there are Pokemon games.

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#49

Post by DanielHB »

KaiserPro wrote: post #46
DanielHB wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bear in mind thats this 4-7% loss only counts dies that have just one broken CPU unit. There are many other failure modes as well. That just seems very very high. Is it? I thought the average for lastest-architecture chips was around 5%.

Sorry I was unclear about what "very high" meant. From what I can see, one can expect about 80-90% yield per wafer, the bit that that doesn't make sense is that the "binned" narrative implies that of those broken parts of the wafer, 25-50% are usable with just one GPU disabled. To me that sounds wrong, and far too high.

I would expect 80% of the failures would have only one core not pass QA.

I remember back in the day it wasn't that unusual for intel to sell quad core CPUs and dual core CPUs that exactly the same hardware-wise, but the dual-core ones didn't pass the QA to be sold as a quad-core.

In fact they sold many functional quad-core CPUs as dual-cores with 2 cores disabled and you could unlock the extra cores with some magic if you got lucky and got one that passed the quad-core QA.

Re: When the cheap one is the cool one

#50

Post by Ancapistani »

ymolodtsov wrote: post #41
mjamesaustin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my personal perspective, every Apple laptop I've ever owned has lasted 10+ years. Their phones may have some planned obsolescence, but I don't find that to be the case at all with their computers.

In my experience their phones last far longer than Androids. Only in the last few years Samsung and Pixel have switched to at least 7 years (now it's the question of whether the hardware will suffice). Until it broke, I was still using my 2018 iPad just last year.

My primary device is still my 2018 iPad Pro. I have lots to choose from, but it’s perfect.
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