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Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

coalton-lang.github.io

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Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#41

Post by Oreb »

dasyatidprime wrote: post #29
mepian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an explanation in the blog: https://coalton-lang.github.io/20260424-mine/ > However, the above is a tall order for someone just wanting to dip their toes in, to see if they have any interest in Coalton or Common Lisp. A couple hours on the weekend is easily sunk into getting configurations right, and the right subsystems installed, and the right paths setup, just so the first line of code can be executed. >…

> mine is not Emacs. Ah… yes, okay, I see what they did there… chuckle, sigh. Well, it's arguably in the same grand cultural tradition as EINE and ZWEI at least!

I vaguely remember that there was also TRES. EINE = Eine Is Not Emacs

ZWEI = Zwei Was Eine Initially

TRES = Tres Replaces Eine’s Successor

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#42

Post by v9v »

Oreb wrote: post #41
dasyatidprime wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mine is not Emacs. Ah… yes, okay, I see what they did there… chuckle, sigh. Well, it's arguably in the same grand cultural tradition as EINE and ZWEI at least!

I vaguely remember that there was also TRES. EINE = Eine Is Not Emacs ZWEI = Zwei Was Eine Initially TRES = Tres Replaces Eine’s Successor

DREI = DREI Replaces EINE's Inheritor

https://mcclim.common-lisp.dev/static/documents/drei.pdf

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#43

Post by threethirtytwo »

satiric wrote: post #40
threethirtytwo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh one Adjective "legacy"? And that threw people off? Ok replace that with "cool" and I wouldn't get downvotes? Geeze

Yes, you can expect people here to read your comments and judge them by their content. Were you expecting otherwise?

Why don't you read my comment again and respond to the comment at hand rather then make some asinine response on how people respond to the "content" of a comment. No shit sherlock.

To spell it out for you, my comment was mayhap a bit more sophisticated for you to comprehend. I was not talking about "content" but the nature of the "content" within my comment and how one irrelevant adjective "legacy" was taken out of hand because it offended you. Why did it offend you? Probably because it's true.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#44

Post by threethirtytwo »

girvo wrote: post #28
threethirtytwo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also I still have to write code by hand, because there’s a whole bunch of edits and adjustments that I’m far faster at shrug I'm faster too, in general. The thing is now with AI I'm working on at least 3 to 4 projects in parallel. I tell the AI to do an edit and I context switch to something else. shrug

I do the same, but 3-4 is simply too many. I would guess you’re smarter than me, because more than 2 and I’m already at a fixed bottleneck of reviewing it (and reviewing my teams output on top)

nah reviews take a while right? You can have 2 or 3 agents running in the background while you review. It has nothing to do with intelligence. You can review one project while having 20 agents run in the background too... your intelligence is conceptually orthogonal to the amount of agents you have running.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#45

Post by metaketra »

bitwize wrote: post #12

I keep hoping the Common Lisp community will step up and deliver better Visual Studio Code support. Asking new devs to learn Emacs, alongside all of Lisp's idiosyncrasies, is too tall an order. I bro'd through it in the 90s but today's new devs have been spoiled by modern UIs (and that's a good thing) and shouldn't have to cope with Emacs and its stubborn retroness. Seeing something like this is a step in the right d…

I don't think Emacs is that hard to get used to, as long as you don't expect to replicate your IDE experience right away. Like if you use Jetbrains products, expect to switch to Emacs and get the same approach right away you will just have a very very bad time.

I started using Emacs recently for Orgmode as an alternative to Obsidian, first I just thought I'd try using for about a month, and if I don't like it I'd quit. But I kept using it month after month, eventually switching it completely. It's been over a year since then.

Then I also figured I'd try some lisp since that's what it's used for, and installing SBCL and Sly was super easy. And then the actual experience of writing Lisp was easy too.

This is on Windows 10 too. You can install and update Emacs and SBCL for Common Lisp very easily with Scoop. It might not be the optimal way to do it, but it works perfectly fine. For comparison I tried installing Lem on Windows and I couldn't get it to work.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#46

Post by dajt »

aidenn0 wrote: post #33
dajt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a non-programmer want to download, install and run a CL IDE?

1. It is a potential first step on the way from non-programmer to programmer. 2. "Easy enough for a non-programmer" may also say something about how easy it is for a programmer.

I think the number of non-programmers who think 'I want to learn to program; I'll start with common lisp but emacs is too difficult!' is so small it is not a group worth considering. It's probably MIT & Stanford undergrads?

It's their IDE and they can design it how they want, but that's a weird goal for a CL IDE.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#47

Post by girvo »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #44
girvo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do the same, but 3-4 is simply too many. I would guess you’re smarter than me, because more than 2 and I’m already at a fixed bottleneck of reviewing it (and reviewing my teams output on top)

nah reviews take a while right? You can have 2 or 3 agents running in the background while you review. It has nothing to do with intelligence. You can review one project while having 20 agents run in the background too... your intelligence is conceptually orthogonal to the amount of agents you have running.

I don’t have the mental capacity to do that at that scale. It produces more than I can review.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#48

Post by mepian »

dajt wrote: post #46
aidenn0 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It is a potential first step on the way from non-programmer to programmer. 2. "Easy enough for a non-programmer" may also say something about how easy it is for a programmer.

I think the number of non-programmers who think 'I want to learn to program; I'll start with common lisp but emacs is too difficult!' is so small it is not a group worth considering. It's probably MIT & Stanford undergrads? It's their IDE and they can design it how they want, but that's a weird goal for a CL IDE.

You haven't seen the Lisp subreddit then, there is a post complaining about having to learn Emacs at least once every week or so.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#49

Post by skydhash »

reikonomusha wrote: post #37
skydhash wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always start the REPL on its own and start playing that way. Or use something like: sbcl --load Sly/Slime is not essential to play around with Lisp. Emacs just has the right architecture for an REPL workflow. You can do REPL development with Sql and various other programs in Emacs.

Something like SLIME isn't essential to execute Lisp code, you're right, but it is essential in order to understand the efficiencies afforded by interactive development, which may as well be one of the pillars of the language, since "garbage collection" and "an object system" aren't in and of themselves differentiators anymore*. Using something like SLIME also takes a lot of the pains that people have with Lisp away,…

Interactive development is because Common Lisp runntime has the concept of images and systems. Just like you start you OS and do things with it, you start the Lisp runtime and do things with it. It’s a point A to point B type of interaction like running a script. Smalltalk, SMl, a modern web browser,… has the same kind of interaction. It’s not dependent on any editor.

Also automatic idiomatic formatting of lisp code is possible in any editor as long as they have the settings for it. Not sure how Emacs is the gatekeeper on that one.

Re: Mine, an IDE for Coalton and Common Lisp

#50

Post by aidenn0 »

mepian wrote: post #48
dajt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the number of non-programmers who think 'I want to learn to program; I'll start with common lisp but emacs is too difficult!' is so small it is not a group worth considering. It's probably MIT & Stanford undergrads? It's their IDE and they can design it how they want, but that's a weird goal for a CL IDE.

You haven't seen the Lisp subreddit then, there is a post complaining about having to learn Emacs at least once every week or so.

I personally suspect that the overwhelming majority of those complaining would find a different reason to not learn lisp if the Emacs barrier were removed, but I very much might be wrong.
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