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Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

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Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#41

Post by troupo »

RugnirViking wrote: post #15
SecretDreams wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see how this topic might mirror something like some dudes just working on the Death Star, never having actually met a sith? There's been whole genocidal campaigns waged where people were just treating it as a day job.

yes? this isn't a "just following orders isnt a defence" case. Almost everyone at meta did nothing of the sort of bad stuff. There are nearly a hundred thousand people working at meta. This is a "being a part of an extremely large group of people, some entirely separate members of the group are doing bad stuff" Are there no groups you are a part of where members have done bad things? are you sure? Do you seriously bl…

"I chose to work as a developer for this supranational corporation, but nothing bad this corporation does is any reflection on me personally, I only work there, making sure this supranational corporation keeps existing through my work. It's also the same thing as being born in a country."

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#42

Post by ohyoutravel »

RugnirViking wrote: post #35
ohyoutravel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respond to the substance, don’t give a cop out response.

my arguments above already respond to the substance of what you have written, you haven't adressed them, merely restated the position I objected to at the start. I'm no debate lord, merely expressed my dislike of the baying for blood people clearly have here, pointed at everyone seemingly except the actual people responsible

I’ve been seeing this sort of response more and more lately. :(

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#43

Post by ben_w »

ramon156 wrote: post #31
softwaredoug wrote: post #21

This article is just a summary of other articles. Specifically these two more detailed ones: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/meta-to-start-capturing-emplo... https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-new-ai-tool-tracks-staf...

> "This makes me super uncomfortable. How do we opt out?" was the top-rated comment in response to the internal announcement, according to a post on Meta's internal workplace communications site seen by Business Insider." Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?

> Have people lost their spine?

Yes, but this being Meta who are one of the several poster-children for surveillance capitalism, this comes across as more a face-leopard than a missing spine: https://old.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/

> seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?

Have you seen the job market lately? Not just in the USA, but also in the USA, there's a lot of people holding on to whatever they've got because it's hard to find replacement work.

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#44

Post by troupo »

RugnirViking wrote: post #40
hgoel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were Meta employees forced to work for Meta? Not that I agree with the idea of blaming all Meta employees (e.g. janitors, drivers etc don't deserve the blame), but I do think the ones doing the computer work deserve some blame.

Do all of the hundred thousand meta employees have a say in what happens? Do they even have as much say as citizens in a democracy? I can agree that the teams working on the specific features have quite a lot of blame. Those asked to implement immoral ads/algorithm stuff. But how many are those people as a proportion of the entire staff?

> Do all of the hundred thousand meta employees have a say in what happens?

They all chose to work at Meta. And for the vast majority of them (especially programmers) there were other choices.

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#45

Post by wpietri »

RugnirViking wrote: post #8
dgellow wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave working at meta is indeed in part responsible for meta doings. Yes leaving has a cost. That’s the whole point. Meta actions also have associated costs, it is just externalized and doesn’t impact Dave directly

As I said before. Its very easy to suggest that someone should leave their job on ideological grounds when its someone else you've never met. You have to understand, this hypothetical guy has never met zuck. He's quite possibly never met anyone who has never met zuck. He may well not live in america. The job market for programmers is not good right now. Estimates put average time in unemployment at 12+ months. Would…

You are confusing pointing out that people are morally responsible for the their actions with suggesting "that someone should leave their job on ideological grounds".

I get that you (and most of them) want to cash the checks without feeling responsible. Tough. People make the choice to work there, and they make the choice every day to keep working there. Other people get to make choices too, including about how they think about, describe, and treat people who profit from harming others.

Freedom of speech and freedom of action does not include freedom from consequences. Your freedom, or that of people making bank at Meta, is not more important than anybody else's freedom.

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#46

Post by Traubenfuchs »

ramon156 wrote: post #31
softwaredoug wrote: post #21

This article is just a summary of other articles. Specifically these two more detailed ones: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/meta-to-start-capturing-emplo... https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-new-ai-tool-tracks-staf...

> "This makes me super uncomfortable. How do we opt out?" was the top-rated comment in response to the internal announcement, according to a post on Meta's internal workplace communications site seen by Business Insider." Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?

The majority of people working at Meta will never ever again in their lives get a job offer that good. Meta knows this and doesn't care about many of them quitting. They can currently scoop up an endless supply of developers that have memorized every single leetcode hard, system design and """behavioral""" interview question.

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#47

Post by leetrout »

ramon156 wrote: post #31
softwaredoug wrote: post #21

This article is just a summary of other articles. Specifically these two more detailed ones: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/meta-to-start-capturing-emplo... https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-new-ai-tool-tracks-staf...

> "This makes me super uncomfortable. How do we opt out?" was the top-rated comment in response to the internal announcement, according to a post on Meta's internal workplace communications site seen by Business Insider." Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?

Money, of course. Both greed and comfort.

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#48

Post by TacticalCoder »

joe_mamba wrote: post #7

Man, I sure wonder if those engineers building Palantir's, Flock's, and other surveillance SW right now (hello if you're reading this), will have this 20/20 hindsight "oh shit" epiphany moment, when the product they helped build is gonna be used against them or their kids in the future. Kind of like when Dr. Frankenstein finds his end at the hands of his creation. Those SW devs probably think that doing a deal with t…

> ... unless you're part of the insider-trading presidential Epstein Island elite pedo-class, you're also not safe from government overreach

But how did that turn out for Ghislaine Maxwell though? We aren't seeing her much in the posh NYC parties anymore are we?

And something also has to be said about public shame when sentences like: "Bill Gates got even more STDs than Windows got viruses and that lead to his wife quitting him".

I'd rather be a small millionaire than a billionaire having to suffer headlines like that.

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#49

Post by bauerd »

ramon156 wrote: post #31
softwaredoug wrote: post #21

This article is just a summary of other articles. Specifically these two more detailed ones: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/meta-to-start-capturing-emplo... https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-new-ai-tool-tracks-staf...

> "This makes me super uncomfortable. How do we opt out?" was the top-rated comment in response to the internal announcement, according to a post on Meta's internal workplace communications site seen by Business Insider." Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?

Health insurance and opportunity cost

Re: Irony as Meta staff unhappy about running surveillance software on work PCs

#50

Post by mc32 »

ramon156 wrote: post #31
softwaredoug wrote: post #21

This article is just a summary of other articles. Specifically these two more detailed ones: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/meta-to-start-capturing-emplo... https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-new-ai-tool-tracks-staf...

> "This makes me super uncomfortable. How do we opt out?" was the top-rated comment in response to the internal announcement, according to a post on Meta's internal workplace communications site seen by Business Insider." Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?

Exactly.

It’s the same defeatist attitude people who get an extra three months of pay to train their Eastern European or Indian replacements.

They will gladly take the three months pay to train a replacement. I’d quit on the spot. Let them figure it out.

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