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Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

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Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#41

Post by FireBeyond »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #9

There is homelessness, and then there is drug and/or alcohol addiction. > Those who are convicted of sleeping outdoors could be given the option to avoid jail time by instead entering into a mandatory treatment program for at least 12 months. What happens if someone is homeless and not addicted to drugs or alcohol? Why assume everyone who is homeless is also an addict? It seems entirely reasonable that someone homele…

Yeah, this is punishing people for being homeless, just like Boise (though their city rules were eventually overturned)...

They had a law that it was illegal to sleep outdoors as long as a designated shelter said they had a bed available. One of the more heavily Christian shelters said their policy was to always say they had a bed available, i.e. turn nobody away.

But to stay at their shelter meant mandatory church attendance, mandatory prayer and other religious observances.

So it became de facto enforced that the homeless could face religious indoctrination or jail as their options. Was eventually turned over by threats of or actual moves to challenge constitutionality.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#42

Post by FireBeyond »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #29
silverquiet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arbeit macht frei

While your quote is meant to be snarky, my understanding is that sign isn't at Dachau any longer

It seems strange that they removed the sign after the fact. Unless it was to prevent theft.

Copperhead Road in Johnson County TN (that Copperhead Road) is now known as Copperhead Hollow Road for that reason.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#43

Post by FireBeyond »

adampunk wrote: post #36
soraminazuki wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, if you lose your job, you can just sleep on the street and employers will line up to hire you? That sounds ridiculous.

People tell themselves crazy lies because the truth--that they're just a few coin flips from the same fate--is scary.

I am an EMS instructor, and ex-paramedic. I remember a quote from my instructor, once upon a time, about judgment of the homeless, particularly the drug-addicted.

"You can question the choices that led them there, but that ship has sailed. The truth of it is if your life consisted of things like looking for food in public garbage cans amongst cigarette butts, bird shit, that had been rained on, that you were reduced to using alleyways to go to the bathroom, newspaper (if you can even find that) to wipe, then it's quite likely that you too would "choose" to retreat to a gorked out haze to escape the emotional pain of that existence. I know I certainly would."

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#44

Post by FireBeyond »

SilverElfin wrote: post #40
Schiendelman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do be careful. Everyone claims that, but it's almost always something like 80% local in every place that measures.

The measurements are always wrong. Volunteers tell people to lie on the point in time surveys so programs supporting them (or claiming to support them) keep getting funding. In the west coast cities the majority are from elsewhere and it’s easy to confirm if you actually talk to some of them and learn more about the backgrounds of people at the camp. They are there because not only are they tolerated and can break th…

> but they also get free needles to help their habit

They're not getting free needles to "help their habit", they're getting them so they don't re-use or share. Because what's more difficult to help than an addict? An addict with a communicable, potentially fatal, illness.

I am an ex-paramedic. I've lost track of the number of times I've administered narcan, gone to ODs, seen the sheer disaster of cotton fever (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23528959/). Free needles isn't encouraging people to keep their habit going, it's a means of not adding one more route to death's door.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#45

Post by FireBeyond »

archagon wrote: post #5
SilverElfin wrote: post #3

[flagged]

So an unhoused person has to either go to prison (accomplishing what?) or go to some “treatment” camp in the woods and pay for it (using what money?!) Excuse me, but what the fuck? Which part of this helps them get out of their shitty situation instead of basically sticking them in a concentration camp indefinitely? And what if they don’t have a drug problem? What will they be “treated” for at this remote location? I…

> and pay for it (using what money?!)

Just like Florida. Get arrested and spend any time in jail, and the state will start charging you $85/day. Oh, released without charge? Charges dropped or case dismissed? Found not guilty? Florida doesn't care, they're sending you a bill anyway. And if you don't pay it?

Class B Felony, my friend. Warrants issued. And so it goes.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#46

Post by adampunk »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #39
adampunk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My heart bleeds for the person who sees someone sleeping in the street and assumes the sight of it is the tiresome thing.

Your heart doesn't have to bleed for such a person but I think most people would agree it is tiresome to see homeless people in the street. It is also a public health issue. Doing heroin in the middle of the sidewalk and throwing the needle on the ground is obviously extremely un-hygienic and dangerous to everyone.

You write more but there is still not a hint of sympathy in your words for humans living in the street.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#47

Post by archagon »

FireBeyond wrote: post #43
adampunk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tell themselves crazy lies because the truth--that they're just a few coin flips from the same fate--is scary.

I am an EMS instructor, and ex-paramedic. I remember a quote from my instructor, once upon a time, about judgment of the homeless, particularly the drug-addicted. "You can question the choices that led them there, but that ship has sailed. The truth of it is if your life consisted of things like looking for food in public garbage cans amongst cigarette butts, bird shit, that had been rained on, that you were reduced…

Not to mention the majority of passerby ignoring you (in the best case) or outright loathing you.

No wonder the homeless get so attached to their dogs. The dogs love them without judgement.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#48

Post by archagon »

FireBeyond wrote: post #44
SilverElfin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The measurements are always wrong. Volunteers tell people to lie on the point in time surveys so programs supporting them (or claiming to support them) keep getting funding. In the west coast cities the majority are from elsewhere and it’s easy to confirm if you actually talk to some of them and learn more about the backgrounds of people at the camp. They are there because not only are they tolerated and can break th…

> but they also get free needles to help their habit They're not getting free needles to "help their habit", they're getting them so they don't re-use or share. Because what's more difficult to help than an addict? An addict with a communicable, potentially fatal, illness. I am an ex-paramedic. I've lost track of the number of times I've administered narcan, gone to ODs, seen the sheer disaster of cotton fever ( http…

The boiling, unspoken subtext to anti-homeless vitriol is often “well, they should just die then.”

On occasion, they actually say it out loud: https://endhomelessness.org/media/news-releases/national-all...

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#49

Post by Gabriel54 »

adampunk wrote: post #46
Gabriel54 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your heart doesn't have to bleed for such a person but I think most people would agree it is tiresome to see homeless people in the street. It is also a public health issue. Doing heroin in the middle of the sidewalk and throwing the needle on the ground is obviously extremely un-hygienic and dangerous to everyone.

You write more but there is still not a hint of sympathy in your words for humans living in the street.

I'm not sure what sympathy has to do with anything we are discussing? People experiencing homelessness do not need sympathy, they need homes and community and support. It is a luxury to be sympathetic because the most sympathetic people are not the people dealing with issues associated with homelessness.

In my opinion the way the US deals with homelessness is a disaster because we have a disorganized, disconnected and dysfunctional social net. E.g., how is someone with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia able to treat their condition if they cannot get their medicine because they don't have health insurance? How can they get a home without a job or family support? The list of such issues goes on and on.

Telling people that they just need to have more sympathy and to accept seeing homeless people on the street is a losing strategy and not a solution. In my opinion the solutions include universal healthcare, robust social support systems and drug/alcohol treatment programs. These programs benefit everyone. At the same time it is not crazy to say, "I do not want to see drug addicted people on my doorstep every day."

Perhaps you also agree that these are part of an ideal solution but framing it as sympathy for the homeless is a losing strategy. Everyone would benefit from a social welfare system set up in a sane way, but somehow every discussion in the US turns into an "us-versus-them" mentality. It is like a reality distortion field and a victory of the media-propaganda complex.

Edit: to summarize, homelessness presents two problems, one for the individual experiencing it, and one for society. Solutions need to target both problems. But to deny the reality of one or the other is a critical error.

Re: Louisiana Advances One of the Country's 'Cruelest' Anti-Homeless Bills

#50

Post by cybercatgurrl »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #49
adampunk wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You write more but there is still not a hint of sympathy in your words for humans living in the street.

I'm not sure what sympathy has to do with anything we are discussing? People experiencing homelessness do not need sympathy, they need homes and community and support. It is a luxury to be sympathetic because the most sympathetic people are not the people dealing with issues associated with homelessness. In my opinion the way the US deals with homelessness is a disaster because we have a disorganized, disconnected an…

exactly. nobody benefits from a government that doesn’t reinvest the wellbeing of it’s own people
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