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CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

medicalxpress.com

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Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#41

Post by CooCooCaCha »

almostjazz wrote: post #17
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I told you I put a chemical into the water supply that gave people brown hair you’d probably think I am weird and stupid but not evil. If I told you the chemical gave people down syndrome you’d probably think I am evil. Whenever these topics come up there’s always people saying things like “but what if people like it?” And I can’t help but wonder, really? Are we really having this conversation? The answers are obv…

If you force something major and permanent on somebody without their consent for no good reason, of course it would be evil. It would be evil to force somebody gay to be straight and it would be evil to force somebody straight to be gay, that has nothing to do with the goodness or badness of being straight or gay. Hair dye is temporary.

All analogies are flawed and I think you’re taking the wrong message here.

If doctors gave mothers a vaccine that prevented down syndrome, at a high level, that would be the same as putting an anti-down syndrome drug in the water supply.

The point of the example is not about whether putting things in the water supply is good or bad.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#42

Post by refulgentis »

CooCooCaCha wrote: post #36
bulbar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a valid argument to say that people with down syndrome are much happier than those without. Most of them need a society (or at least multiple other people) without that trait to survive, though.

This post is about curing down syndrome though. Saying “but they’re happy” in this context is implying that we shouldn’t try to cure it, which is obviously ridiculous.

I had the exact same reaction as you but vitriolic, had to take a step back and treat it like a research exercise (in another reply)

Re: "but they're happy" x obviously ridiculous, it hit me 10 minutes in, if we're going off 99% happy, it's absolutely absurd - then the conclusion is we should give everyone down's syndrome.

My initial snap reaction was it must be trolling. But it can't be, if you're looking to stir the pot you don't do it on the 6 comment non-technical post on the second page.

Which kinda makes it more disturbing, to me, because it goes beyond someone not understanding. It's some sort of weird active misunderstanding, like, seeing fun heart-warming Downs syndrome sibling videos on social media is enough for one to assume it's net-good, somehow.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#43

Post by inglor_cz »

JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

As of now, the overwhelming majority of future parents who learn that their baby is going to suffer from Downs decide to abort it. So 99 per cent of would-be Downs may not get to comment on their enjoyment of life at all.

IIRC there are countries and years without a single Down syndrome sufferer born alive. An effective treatment for the condition could change these stats.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#44

Post by lynx97 »

bulbar wrote: post #37
lynx97 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar statistic applies to many disabilities. If you give people a few years of time, after they acquired a disability, studies show their happiness isn't substantially different from a person without a disability. Grief comes from lack of accessibility and society failing to support us. But not from the actual situation. I have to explain this every other week, to a non-disabled person that tries to tell me how…

This sounds a bit like you dislike the lack of understanding, which itself is based on lack of understanding. On the other hand I agree that commenting on ones disability is a break of boundaries in most contexts. One should quite often avoid to comment on traits in general that are irrelevant for the context or the conversation.

It is not about understanding, it is about not even trying to and just telling a complete stranger how you think they have it bad. That is, as you identified, a break of boundaries. And, frankly, if someone breaks into your house, you are not obligated to "understand" them. You just know they are shitty humans.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#45

Post by kstrauser »

refulgentis wrote: post #39
amoorthy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, thanks for taking the time to share all this data with such clear points. Much appreciated, especially the personal anecdote to make all this be less academic.

I read their comment, flashback to years of growing up, trying to salvage an unsalvageable situation, and my now non-existent family all came rushing in at once. I saw red, almost posted the one sentence putdown version....glad I took a step back and data-fied it. Learned a bit myself, and I really appreciate you said this. Don't have words for why. Cheers.

I mentioned in another comment here that I lived next to a family dealing with a challenging situation. They have my infinite respect for doing their best with a life-altering condition. I saw, and know, how hard it was for them, but they pressed on. Well, same for you and yours. Thanks for doing what you can.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#46

Post by memonkey »

I am slightly reminded of Gattaca, the story of which is that certain people are discriminated based on their DNA. Society is built, in general, excluding certain people due to their disabilities. Whether or not a blind person can find meaning or enjoy life has road blocks but is not impossible. Science can provide technologies to potentially improve people's lives -- cochlear implants for those with hearing loss, for example. There are ongoing philosophical discussions of whether or not these technologies and scientific discoveries are actually harming or helping those with these disabilities and the broader discussion of 'normalizing' society at large (I don't want to use the term eugenics).

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#47

Post by kakacik »

pc86 wrote: post #33
JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> It would be interesting to understand what people with down syndrome feel about this. Would it? > Would they all want what makes them unique turned off? Having a disability doesn't make you unique, it makes you disabled. There is a difference. > 99% of people with Down syndrome were happy with their lives; 97% liked who they are; 96% liked how they looked; 99% expressed love for their families; 97% liked their brot…

Yeah thats why all new expecting parents (here in Switzerland at least) have blood checks for exactly this and there is a reason its done before crossing the legal limit for abortion.

Respect to every single parent who does their best for their kids, but raising kids these days in western society is very hard and taxing even in best case scenario.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#48

Post by BrandoElFollito »

kakacik wrote: post #47
pc86 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be interesting to understand what people with down syndrome feel about this. Would it? > Would they all want what makes them unique turned off? Having a disability doesn't make you unique, it makes you disabled. There is a difference. > 99% of people with Down syndrome were happy with their lives; 97% liked who they are; 96% liked how they looked; 99% expressed love for their families; 97% liked their brot…

Yeah thats why all new expecting parents (here in Switzerland at least) have blood checks for exactly this and there is a reason its done before crossing the legal limit for abortion. Respect to every single parent who does their best for their kids, but raising kids these days in western society is very hard and taxing even in best case scenario.

[flagged]

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#49

Post by BrandoElFollito »

kstrauser wrote: post #40
JimmyBuckets wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> Most people with down syndrome live happy, fulfilling lives. Correction: the people with Down Syndrome who are capable of meaningfully responding to the question answered a certain way on one survey. Down's affects different people differently. There are plenty of people who don't have the mental facilities to understand the question, let alone respond. I've seen this kind of argument with autism, too. People here…

I agree. I have two friends with light autism that does not impact their mental faculties (the old Asperger's) and they have happy lives because they are different enough to be interesting. Work, family, hobbies, everything.

You push this difference a bit more and it becomes hell. For them and for the others.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#50

Post by CooCooCaCha »

jjj123 wrote: post #20
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I told you I put a chemical into the water supply that gave people brown hair you’d probably think I am weird and stupid but not evil. If I told you the chemical gave people down syndrome you’d probably think I am evil. Whenever these topics come up there’s always people saying things like “but what if people like it?” And I can’t help but wonder, really? Are we really having this conversation? The answers are obv…

Kind of a strange example, because yeah I do think it’s evil to inflict your aesthetic preference on everyone’s bodies without consent.

So there’s no difference at all? Making everybody have brown hair is the same as giving everyone down syndrome?
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