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In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

theguardian.com

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Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#41

Post by dathinab »

SoftTalker wrote: post #14
darth_avocado wrote: post #13

This would’ve been a non issue if human beings worked together as a species, but we don’t. There is plenty of space on the planet where no one lives and nothing thrives that could be converted massive solar farms that power the planet.

Transmitting that energy from where nobody lives to where people do live becomes the problem with that.

in the distances we speak about we do so all the time with more centralized energy sources (like e.g. nuklear) due to their centralized nature

the issue is less the transport distances but changes in "from where to where" sometimes needing some extensions/improvements to the power grid. Through commonly in ways which anyway make sense and all pretty much "standard" solutions well understood. Through there are some more complicated exceptions to that.

EDIT: "distances we speak about" assumed less many local less dense populate/suitable spots across the EU, not a mega project like a energy pipeline from North Afrika.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#43

Post by Arn_Thor »

mellosouls wrote: post #27
dathinab wrote: post #21

not buying that this isn't anti renewable propaganda for the US the images in the article looks bad until you take a short look at satellite images and realize: - it's not the norm but the exception - the photos are made to make it look maximally bad in a deceptive/manipulative way, and that is even in context, that Denmark is a special case in that it both quite small and has little "dead" (not agriculturally effici…

"not buying that this isn't anti renewable propaganda for the US" Its the Guardian so that is a very unlikely motivation.

_Something_ motivates them, though. They have been on a wild anti-solar bend the last year or more. Dozens of articles, all with the same anti-solar NIMBY bent

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#44

Post by mort96 »

soco wrote: post #40
mort96 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even read it because you either have to accept all tracking or pay a subscription fee. Pretty sure that's against the GDPR? Anyway, not a good look.

Isn't GDPR an EU thing?

Well an EU/EEA thing. And I'm in the EEA, so it applies when I visit The Guardian.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#45

Post by ZeroGravitas »

dathinab wrote: post #21

not buying that this isn't anti renewable propaganda for the US the images in the article looks bad until you take a short look at satellite images and realize: - it's not the norm but the exception - the photos are made to make it look maximally bad in a deceptive/manipulative way, and that is even in context, that Denmark is a special case in that it both quite small and has little "dead" (not agriculturally effici…

There is an art to taking pictures of solar farms from exactly the right angle so that the panels seem continuous, often making use of deep shadows to cover the gaps.

It's similar to the telephoto shots of wind farms taken from far away that make them seem really close together.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#46

Post by ZeroGravitas »

SoftTalker wrote: post #11

Denmark is a poor location for solar. They are pretty far north and don't have a lot of sunny days that are good for solar generation. When they do, those peaks drive energy prices negative. From the article: Over the next 10 years, the official expectation is a very large rise in the amount of solar produced. But that kind of clashes with the reality on the ground – they can’t make money

Far north places have long summer days. This doesn't align well with the winter heating needs but it does balance really well with wind generation which peaks in winter.

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#47

Post by dathinab »

Sharlin wrote: post #29
SoftTalker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transmitting that energy from where nobody lives to where people do live becomes the problem with that.

Building HVDC lines from North Africa to Europe, for example, wouldn't be a huge feat of civil engineering. Rather standard stuff, really.

we don't need something that long distance at all

EU has enough areas with sparse population and not that much nature which also are south enough to have it work out well with solar panels of the current generations.

And besides that even most EU countries have enough places in them to still put a lot of solar panels without much issues and/or replacing fields.

going as far as North Africa is a bit too far to be convenient for power transport

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#48

Post by dathinab »

Flavius wrote: post #26

We currently use vast amounts of land growing corn and other crops specifically for biodiesel. Solar panels produce over 100x more energy per hectare than corn ethanol, even in countries like Denmark with limited sunlight. It makes perfect sense to repurpose some biofuel farmland for solar panels. That's just efficient land use, not an attack on agriculture.

> corn and other crops specifically for biodiesel.

honestly that always sounded very misguided to me

fields are not perfectly renewable, biomas gets removed from them and fertilizers can only help so much in any given time frame

mostly corn/raps mono-culture can make that easily far worse

and not needing to import food can safe a lot of energy too

also as you mentioned, modern solar panels seem overall more efficient

in difference to solar or wind, biodiesel just seem a very bad choice

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#49

Post by dathinab »

OutOfHere wrote: post #7

Denmark could use floating sea solar.

if there where an issue yes,

but it doesn't look like there actually is a major issues. A look at satellite images it looks more like a problem for a handful of people across all of Denmark which then is misrepresented by populist, to push anti-solar propaganda.

(Oh, and we don't even know how much the people in Hjolderup do resent it. Like seriously, they might even have put the solar panels there them-self to make money, idk.. Because conveniently the article shows pictures of Hjolderup to invoke a felling of how terrible it is, but never any interviews or options with anyone _from_ Hjolderup. )

Re: In Denmark, the spread of solar panels has become a divisive issue

#50

Post by dathinab »

testing22321 wrote: post #30
dathinab wrote: post #21

not buying that this isn't anti renewable propaganda for the US the images in the article looks bad until you take a short look at satellite images and realize: - it's not the norm but the exception - the photos are made to make it look maximally bad in a deceptive/manipulative way, and that is even in context, that Denmark is a special case in that it both quite small and has little "dead" (not agriculturally effici…

100% It also presents the draw man that solar can only go in huge fields that would otherwise grow food. There are plenty of rooftops and car parks that can be covered in solar to excellent benefit. Ie https://www.eventplanner.net/news/10582_largest-solar-carpor...

and field which have been damaged due to overuse and incorrect handling and preferable shouldn't be used for the next ~50 year
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