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The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

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Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#41

Post by ozgrakkurt »

semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

This is a really wrong perspective on software. Short term monkey style coding does not produce products. You might get money but that is not what it is about.

This is similar to retarded builders in Turkey saying “wow, I can make the same building, sell for the same price, but spend way less” and then millions of people becoming victim when there is an earthquake.

This is not how responsible people should think about things in society

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#42

Post by noosphr »

dominotw wrote: post #5

> So pure vibe coding is a myth. But they’re still trying to do it, and this leads to some very ridiculous outcomes creating a product in a span of mere months that millions of developers use everday is opposite of ridiculous. we wouldn't even have known about the supposed ridiculousness of code if it hadnt leaked.

I suppose months is better than weeks. The world's still not recovered from the last such tech used by millions of developers.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#43

Post by sbysb »

noosphr wrote: post #33
semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

I don't think anyone who used Claude code on the terminal had anything good to say about it. It was people using it through vs code that had a good time.

I have used Claude Code in the terminal to the tune of ~20m tokens in the last month and I have very little to complain about. There are definitely quirks that are annoying (as all software has, including vs code or jetbrains IDEs) but broadly speaking it does what it says on the tin ime

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#45

Post by mech422 »

throw949449 wrote: post #13

> I’ll start a conversation by saying “Let’s audit this codebase for unreachable code,” or “This function makes my eyes bleed,” and we’ll have a conversation about it until something actionable comes up. Then I explain what I think should be done and we’ll keep discussing it until I stop having more thoughts This is painful to read. It feels like rant from person who does not use version control, testing and CI. It i…

wow - I thought it was called 'ideation' or 'brainstorming'. he didn't give it a 'spec', he started a conversation with it to see if 'something actionable comes up' - which you actually quoted, but didn't appear to read ?

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#46

Post by somewhatjustin »

This reminds me of Clayton Christensen's theory of disruption.

Disruption happens when firms are disincentivized to switch to the new thing or address the new customer because the current state of it is bad, the margins are low. Intel missed out on mobile because their existing business was so excellent and making phone chips seemed beneath them.

The funny thing is that these firms are being completely rational. Why leave behind high margins and your excellent full-featured product for this half-working new paradigm?

But then eventually, the new thing becomes good enough and overtakes the old one. Going back to the Intel example, they felt this acutely when Apple switched their desktops to ARM.

For now, Claude Code works. It's already good enough. But unless we've plateaued on AI progress, it'll surpass hand crafted equivalents on most metrics.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#47

Post by mwigdahl »

noosphr wrote: post #33
semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

I don't think anyone who used Claude code on the terminal had anything good to say about it. It was people using it through vs code that had a good time.

I prefer using it via the terminal. Might be anchoring bias, but I have had issues with slash commands not registering and hooks not working in the plugin.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#48

Post by bitwize »

semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

Value to customer. Literally the only thing that matters.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#49

Post by kypro »

beart wrote: post #17
infinitewars wrote: post #3

AI is just another layer of abstraction. I'm sure the assembly language folks were grumbling about functions as being too abstracted at one point

AI is non-deterministic. Can it still be considered an abstraction over a deterministic layer?

The argument against this is that human coders are also non-deterministic, so does it really matter if it's a human or an AI agent producing the code – assuming the AI agent is capable of producing human-quality code or better?

I agree it's not a layer of abstraction in the traditional sense though. AI isn't an abstraction of existing code, it's a new way to produce code. It's an "abstraction layer" in the same way an IDE is is an abstraction layer.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#50

Post by camdenreslink »

tedd4u wrote: post #22
semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

Still, it's probably true that Claude Code (etc) will be more successful working on clean, well-structured code, just like human coders are. So short-term, maybe not such a big deal, but long-term I think it's still an unresolved issue.

I imagine it is way more affordable in terms of tokens to implement a feature in a well organized code base, rather than a hacky mess of a codebase that is the result of 30 band-aid fixes stacked on top of each other.
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