Live data from Hacker News

The case for becoming a manager

newsletter.thelongcommit.com

41–50 of 59 posts

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#41

To be honest, in my decades working in this, I have never ever saw a Manager that was a good Developer. Maybe it is just my luck.

The best managers of my career have all been developers, and like myself enjoy going up and down the management chain based on the need of the org. My favourite, at age 61 joined a ~250 person company as CTO, but spent his initial, transitional period of 90 days, as a part developer, part meeting listener, quietly learning as one would expect, helping them scale to 800+ people.

He's the example to me, of the career I'm intentionally pursuing. There's tremendous amounts to learn from, and contribute to, everywhere. Sometimes an organization and I best work together with me managing, other times with fingers on the keyboard. Sometimes, there are multiple jobs.

We could recognize that we're in a different era, or at least that's my bias. Roles are increasingly combinations of generalists, especially in the AI era.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#42

Titles are such gross oversimplifications, I wonder if "manager" even holds much meaning anymore? If you look at the IC track of the engineering ladder at a big tech company, the "Distinguished/Principal Engineer" is technically an IC role, but they have so much organization leadership responsibility that it feels wrong to say they aren't doing high level "management" as part of their role. I have trouble wrapping my…

This is where I separate "manager" from "leader". As a principal level IC, I'm part of "engineering leadership" along with the senior managers, but not a manager.

The work isn't that different to management, sure, but it is different. You're not doing performance reviews... but if someone is over performing you can help get them promoted and if you think someone is doing really badly you can help get them fired.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#43
post #36

If you ignore the titles and just start taking care of things, a whole world opens up that is invisible to most. Doing things even when you aren't sure if they are your responsibility is precisely what makes you a responsible person. Encouraging everyone around you to do trivial things like bringing the shopping cart back is actually a big deal. And the most effective way to do this is to just do it. Park as far as y…

I’m reminded of something passed around Google’s SRE org when I was there:

https://sre.google/resources/practices-and-processes/no-hero...

I agree with the spirit of your comment, but I think that there are circumstances where being the one to pick up the slack results in being taken advantaged of, whether intentional or unintentional on the part of the advantage taker.

In your CSR example, picking up the slack or helping out a couple times when you are equipped to do so is good, but if it turns into a longstanding pattern of hiding what might be an organizational problem (maybe that CSR is really assigned too many customers to keep up) or an individual problem, then this mode of working can do more harm than good in the long term.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#44

Titles are such gross oversimplifications, I wonder if "manager" even holds much meaning anymore? If you look at the IC track of the engineering ladder at a big tech company, the "Distinguished/Principal Engineer" is technically an IC role, but they have so much organization leadership responsibility that it feels wrong to say they aren't doing high level "management" as part of their role. I have trouble wrapping my…

I can fire you. You can’t fire me. That’s the difference

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#45
It's a sweet role. You get 2x the pay, and the only thing you have to do is act like a decent human, and select your team with nm precision, and you can just coast along and collect the pay check.

The only problem is the manager level above you. If you're the guy who likes plain speaking and speaking the truth, being a manager is not for you. If you have sycophantic tendencies, you'll last a long time.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#46
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of professions have terms of art that can be interpreted incorrectly or be viewed as odd by laymen. "Individual contributor" is no different. Maybe it sounds weird to you, but it's a well-understood term in the management profession.

it's a bullshit term because a managers contributions are also individual and the kind of contributions (implied to come from non-individual contributors) also come from individual contributors

ICs are given tasks for one person. Managers are given tasks to distribute to entire teams. By definition managers do not contribute individually because their output (from an org chart perspective) includes the output of everyone reporting to them.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#47
post #36

If you ignore the titles and just start taking care of things, a whole world opens up that is invisible to most. Doing things even when you aren't sure if they are your responsibility is precisely what makes you a responsible person. Encouraging everyone around you to do trivial things like bringing the shopping cart back is actually a big deal. And the most effective way to do this is to just do it. Park as far as y…

>> "Encouraging everyone around you to do trivial things like bringing the shopping cart back is actually a big deal."

Got three shopping carts launched at me while doing this once by confused people who revealed how they behave toward people socially expected to endure abuse and low pay. The problem often goes deeper than responsibility.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#48
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a bullshit term because a managers contributions are also individual and the kind of contributions (implied to come from non-individual contributors) also come from individual contributors

ICs are given tasks for one person. Managers are given tasks to distribute to entire teams. By definition managers do not contribute individually because their output (from an org chart perspective) includes the output of everyone reporting to them.

see how the language lead directly to you considering all contributions to belong to the manager? yea newspeak is bad for the brain!

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#49
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICs are given tasks for one person. Managers are given tasks to distribute to entire teams. By definition managers do not contribute individually because their output (from an org chart perspective) includes the output of everyone reporting to them.

see how the language lead directly to you considering all contributions to belong to the manager? yea newspeak is bad for the brain!

Your manager is on the hook for things you do. I can’t explain it more plainly

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#50

Titles are such gross oversimplifications, I wonder if "manager" even holds much meaning anymore? If you look at the IC track of the engineering ladder at a big tech company, the "Distinguished/Principal Engineer" is technically an IC role, but they have so much organization leadership responsibility that it feels wrong to say they aren't doing high level "management" as part of their role. I have trouble wrapping my…

This is where I separate "manager" from "leader". As a principal level IC, I'm part of "engineering leadership" along with the senior managers, but not a manager. The work isn't that different to management, sure, but it is different. You're not doing performance reviews... but if someone is over performing you can help get them promoted and if you think someone is doing really badly you can help get them fired.

Makes sense. You're managing lots of things (architecture, processes, etc), but you're just not directly managing people.
Post reply on HN