Live data from Hacker News

Java 26 is here

hanno.codes

41–50 of 352 posts

Re: Java 26 is here

#41
post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

I didn't use Java since 7, but from people that do - nowadays you basically don't code Java, you code Spring Boot. And that has all the bad things you think when people say "Java".

I don't know if it's true though.

Re: Java 26 is here

#42
post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

I didn't use Java since 7, but from people that do - nowadays you basically don't code Java, you code Spring Boot. And that has all the bad things you think when people say "Java". I don't know if it's true though.

There's a lot of programming that has nothing to do with SpringBoot - and I say this as someone who works in a backend team that uses SpringBoot for all our apps.

Re: Java 26 is here

#43
post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

"a solid foundation for the future" is faint praise for a language that has been around for over thirty years.

> It has become a best of breed language

To me it lags significantly behind .net (runtime) and C#/F# (language). I don't see Java catching-up.

Re: Java 26 is here

#44
post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

I didn't use Java since 7, but from people that do - nowadays you basically don't code Java, you code Spring Boot. And that has all the bad things you think when people say "Java". I don't know if it's true though.

You're talking to specific people.

A completely different culture of Java usage can and does exist a lot of places. It is absolutely true that success creates a certain ossification of practice. But SpringBoot is not necessary, any more than Guice or any other framework-y thing.

Re: Java 26 is here

#45
post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

"a solid foundation for the future" is faint praise for a language that has been around for over thirty years. > It has become a best of breed language To me it lags significantly behind .net (runtime) and C#/F# (language). I don't see Java catching-up.

They trade blows, and have different philosophies (complex runtime, simpler language vs the reverse).

E.g. on the GC side Java is ahead of any other platform, especially with the low-latency ZGC garbage collector.

Re: Java 26 is here

#46
post #36
post #4

I was pretty surprised when I learned recently that the Java alternative for green threads doesn't use colored functions. It put Java in a higher place in my perception.

Are you perhaps confusing green threads with stackless async models, like async/await? Green threads don't imply colored functions.

They said "Java alternative for green threads" so they're talking about not green threads.

Re: Java 26 is here

#47
post #22
post #4

I was pretty surprised when I learned recently that the Java alternative for green threads doesn't use colored functions. It put Java in a higher place in my perception.

"green threads" is generally how I see these systems identify as "non-colored but with async-like performance" fwiw. or "fibers". otherwise it's "async" or "coroutines".

There are different types of coroutines. The C++ type are sometimes called "stackless coroutines". With stackless coroutines you can't yield from a nested function call. Stackless coroutines are basically generators where you can pass arguments through resume, and async/await is effectively a form of stackless coroutines with yield/resume semantics that aren't fully generalized as coroutines, but oriented toward some bespoke notion of concurrency rather than as an abstract control flow operator.

"Stackful coroutines" allow yielding from any arbitrary point. They're basically fibers, except with the explicit control transfer and value passing yield and resume operators; there's no hidden or implicit control transfer like with green threads. Though, some people would argue allowing any function to yield without announcing this in their type signature is tantamount to hidden control transfer. Personally, I don't see how that's different than allowing any function to call other functions, or to loop, but in any event languages are free to layer on additional typing constraints--constraints that can be tailored to the desired typing semantics, rather than dictated by implementation details.

Stackless coroutines are typically implemented as a special kind of function whose state is allocated and instantiated by the caller. In contrast, stackful coroutines are typically implemented by reifying the stack, similar to threads. The "stack" may or not be the same as the system's ABI stack.

In stackful coroutines, unless there are additional typing constraints imposed by the language for hygiene reasons, any function can typically be called as a coroutine or use yield and resume. There's no need to compile functions into special alternative forms as call frame management works the same whether invoked from a coroutine context or not.

Re: Java 26 is here

#48
post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

I didn't use Java since 7, but from people that do - nowadays you basically don't code Java, you code Spring Boot. And that has all the bad things you think when people say "Java". I don't know if it's true though.

There are more Java devs than people in my home country. Like how could you even give a single description for all of them? They all work on vastly different stuff, from low-latency trading to robotics, to regular old CRUD. Not even the CRUD part is as monotonic though as you make it out to be.

Re: Java 26 is here

#50
post #4

I was pretty surprised when I learned recently that the Java alternative for green threads doesn't use colored functions. It put Java in a higher place in my perception.

No need of colored functions because that Java green thread returns a Future not Value like colored functions
Post reply on HN