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Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

bbc.com

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Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#41

Post by shoxidizer »

rkagerer wrote: post #28

Loot boxes are an in-game feature allowing players to buy random mystery items with real or virtual currency That's not how I use the term. I think of a loot box as a treasure chest or similar that you discover while exploring which, when opened, gives you some loot! On the other hand if you're talking about a package with a random assortment of stuff in it that you buy without knowing what's inside, I call that a "g…

The purchases are purposely similar to previous examples of gameplay in design and language.

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#42

Post by themafia »

nba456_ wrote: post #2

I never understood why video game lootboxes get regulated while real-life lootboxes like pokemon cards don't.

The single layer of abstraction.

Pokemon cards have utility within the game of pokemon. They additionally have value in secondary market places which is not strictly tied to the rarity of the item. These markets are not required to exist for the game to function.

Lootboxes, especially for competitive games, do not have any utility within the game and are often cosmetic. Their value is strictly tied to the rarity of the item which the vendor fully artificially controls. Absent the secondary markets the cases would not be purchased and the items ignored.

So you have a choice. You can make pay to win items and publish the probabilities of actually winning them. Or you can have items that can't be traded. Otherwise you're trending very close to widely known regulated activity like gambling.

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#43

Post by nurettin »

MiiMe19 wrote: post #33
benoau wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in real life the store clerk won't let a child spend $1000 on their parents card making purchases again and again and again and again and again, but a video game will let a child do it in less than an hour and consider that a success and try to understand how to stimulate another child to do so.

With the rise of online storefronts and employees who just don't care I beg to differ.

Differ all you want. No child will bankrupt a family at a trading card game store. These are physical goods paid in bulk with provisioning and there are laws for returning them.

Another point of contention is the randomness of packs. The way you play is: You save up to buy the entire set of boosters and already get almost all cards you need for competitive or fun play. The rest you need to trade for or buy individually. It is much more of a social interaction than gambling. The value you get from saving up and trading is easily 10x what you get from opening boosters.

That's why you will never see a bunch of kids queued up in front of a counter frothing from the mouth saying "just... one more!"

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#45

Post by otikik »

rkagerer wrote: post #28

Loot boxes are an in-game feature allowing players to buy random mystery items with real or virtual currency That's not how I use the term. I think of a loot box as a treasure chest or similar that you discover while exploring which, when opened, gives you some loot! On the other hand if you're talking about a package with a random assortment of stuff in it that you buy without knowing what's inside, I call that a "g…

It’s an expression. You don’t really win them by “exploring”, but by “playing the game”. You end a match? Lootbox. You played 3 days in a row! Lootbox. You opened the options screen? Lootbox.

They usually have a very involved opening animation with music and sounds specifically designed to maximize the feeling of anticipation. Once you see it it feels completely different from what you are describing, because it’s so obviously trying to maximize the gambling aspect of it. It’s like confusing genuine love with prostitution.

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#46

Post by hiccuphippo »

nurettin wrote: post #43
MiiMe19 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the rise of online storefronts and employees who just don't care I beg to differ.

Differ all you want. No child will bankrupt a family at a trading card game store. These are physical goods paid in bulk with provisioning and there are laws for returning them. Another point of contention is the randomness of packs. The way you play is: You save up to buy the entire set of boosters and already get almost all cards you need for competitive or fun play. The rest you need to trade for or buy individual…

Allowing trading is a big part of it. Most online games never allow trading the things bought with real money, they get tied to your account. I guess as a way to prevent CC fraud but it still contributes to the issue.

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#47

Post by Razengan »

Twirrim wrote: post #27
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #11

Ok, so we all agreed that it is gambling. But for some reason we let kids gamble but only after they reach sixteen? This feels weird.

I guess it's not gambling, or it'd be covered by the UKs existing laws around gambling that set the minimum age to 18. edit: I'm pointing out the UK has apparently decided lootboxes are not gambling, because if they did classify it as gambling it'd be covered by existing gambling laws that restrict it to 18+. Not that I personally hold that opinion, though I can see how I could have phrased my original message better…

> I'm pointing out the UK has apparently decided lootboxes are not gambling

Wow, considering how the UK has been going full Taliban on everything why stop at lootboxes? Guess the politicians are getting some money/bribes from the lootbox companies.

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#48

Post by Razengan »

Yet again more moves which take away the liberty of all citizens and users instead of restricting predatory companies and products..

How much access to money parents want to give their kids is up to the parents.

What people do with their own money, including kids, is up to the people.

WHY are countries not enacting laws that punish companies for once? Say something like:

• "After 3-5 purchases of the same item with random contents the buyer should get the content they specifically want."

• "No item with random contents should cost more than N $\€"

• "Buyers should have N-M hours to get a refund for an item with random contents"

That way you could keep the "fun" and spirit of gambling without its destructive spiral and stuff

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#49

Post by seattle_spring »

themafia wrote: post #42
nba456_ wrote: post #2

I never understood why video game lootboxes get regulated while real-life lootboxes like pokemon cards don't.

The single layer of abstraction. Pokemon cards have utility within the game of pokemon. They additionally have value in secondary market places which is not strictly tied to the rarity of the item. These markets are not required to exist for the game to function. Lootboxes, especially for competitive games, do not have any utility within the game and are often cosmetic. Their value is strictly tied to the rarity of t…

Rarity of Pokemon cards is also fully controlled by the vendor, and it's of course very intentional.

Re: Games with loot boxes to get minimum 16 age rating across Europe

#50

Post by isodev »

otikik wrote: post #44

I think this is good, but also it will change things very little (parents will skip the age verification screen).

It’s not for technology to replace parents in their responsibilities to teach their kids how to cope with stuff of life.

Age ratings are an aid but still require passing good habits and developing your child’s ability to think and solve this for themselves. So not letting your kids get addicted to in-app purchases sounds like good parenting. Keeping your kids away from tablets and smartphones until they’re 16 is even better parenting.

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