Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

probablydance.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#41

Post by jrowen »

Matl wrote: post #35
jrowen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy is about technology aiding operational efficiency. It ends there. You basically made a dramatic statement about Trump.

This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go. But he does perfectly demonstrate that you can't have operational efficiency if you're ignorant about your enemies because you're being advised by religious fanatics, if your goals are constantly shifting and your motives are purely selfish.

> This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go.

Idk if I agree with this. First off, your initial verbiage is distinctly Trumpian. Second, I think Trump, like Hitler, activates latent sentiments that are largely kept at bay with "normal" post-WWII world leader politics. I think it's anomalous and once we get out of it things will normalize.

But really, my main point was that the politics and the "whys" of these decisions (capture Maduro, bomb Iran) are outside the scope of the article. It assumes that the decisions have been made and is looking only at the impact of specific technology on the operational outcomes.

It seems like a lot of the commenters are responding as if the article is making the point that "the US is like the Culture" but it's much more narrow and specific than that.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#42

Post by rimeice »

"I think the Culture’s values are a winning strategy because they’re the sum of a million small decisions that have clear moral force and that tend to pull everyone together onto the same side." Dario Amodei [1]

[1] - https://www.darioamodei.com/essay/machines-of-loving-grace#5...

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#43

Post by Matl »

jrowen wrote: post #41
Matl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go. But he does perfectly demonstrate that you can't have operational efficiency if you're ignorant about your enemies because you're being advised by religious fanatics, if your goals are constantly shifting and your motives are purely selfish.

> This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go. Idk if I agree with this. First off, your initial verbiage is distinctly Trumpian. Second, I think Trump, like Hitler, activates latent sentiments that are largely kept at bay with "normal" post-WWII world leader politics. I think it's anomalous and once we get out of it things will normalize. But reall…

> It seems like a lot of the commenters are responding as if the article is making the point that "the US is like the Culture" but it's much more narrow and specific than that.

Right, however that narrow point of essentially (overwhelming) technological superiority and 'efficiency' can be made using a very large number of science fiction. The Culture explores specific themes that make it what it is. If you completely dismiss them, I am not sure you are left with even a whiff of Iain Banks' Culture.

And to be clear, the point I am specifically making is that a lot of what the US is currently doing is not exactly rational, or even a supper efficient way to achieve their stated goals and a lot of it seems to be made up as they go along.

That does not feel like The Culture to me.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#45

Post by Matl »

soupfordummies wrote: post #44

Can someone ELI5 how Cluade is/was being used for Venezuela & Iran? "Hey claude, tell me how the US can abduct Maduro. Your response should include all details regarding times, local places as well as blah blah blah"

I can only guess but I'd think maybe it's more for playing out scenarios i.e. in such and such situation, if x, y and z are true on the ground, how would you expect this to play out, while playing with x, y, z and then maybe working to get x, y, z as close to be what we roleplayed on the ground before going in, rather than an exact 'how to'.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#46

Post by LoganDark »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6
automatic6131 wrote: post #2

This is pure delusion. Completely dry of any data, based on vibes and a vague whiff that maybe a chatbot did all the hard work done by hardworking spooks. Effective operations have happened just like this long before chatgpt launched.

The "article" (I don't know what else to call it; "fantastical screed"?) has also gotten ahead of events a little bit. The operation in Iran doesn't seem like it was planned by a superintelligent AI. It seems as though it was an impulse decision, and poorly thought out at that, with the end result likely to be far worse than its planners anticipated. As for Venezuela, that was literally an inside job, lol.

It seems to implicate anything that "work[ed] slightly better than it should" as the work of AI.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#47

Post by jrowen »

soupfordummies wrote: post #44

Can someone ELI5 how Cluade is/was being used for Venezuela & Iran? "Hey claude, tell me how the US can abduct Maduro. Your response should include all details regarding times, local places as well as blah blah blah"

You have to have working knowledge of StarCraft and the RTS genre of games to understand what they're getting at.

One area is "micromanagement." Hundreds of individual units moving and acting independently is very difficult for one human general to track, let alone react and give orders to quickly. Think more about rapid data analysis and surfacing supporting information than it being the singular mastermind behind the operation.

As the article says, it's not a huge quantum leap where it just obliterates everything. It's about just being a little bit smarter, a little bit faster, having that little edge that tips everything in their favor.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#48

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

jrowen wrote: post #41
Matl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go. But he does perfectly demonstrate that you can't have operational efficiency if you're ignorant about your enemies because you're being advised by religious fanatics, if your goals are constantly shifting and your motives are purely selfish.

> This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go. Idk if I agree with this. First off, your initial verbiage is distinctly Trumpian. Second, I think Trump, like Hitler, activates latent sentiments that are largely kept at bay with "normal" post-WWII world leader politics. I think it's anomalous and once we get out of it things will normalize. But reall…

Yeah, I emotionally disagreed with this article, because I like the Culture, mostly.

That being said, it's possible that AI is helping here.

Mind you, given the sycophancy of current models, it's also possible that commanders are making worse decisions based on the results of these AI outputs.

Finally, if the US manage to get what they want without completely destroying the balance of power in the Middle East or sending oil to 150 a barrel, then I'd be much more likely to accept the authors speculation.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#49

Post by jrowen »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #48
jrowen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This behavior predates Trump. He's just an accelerationist of where this sort of behavior was always bound to go. Idk if I agree with this. First off, your initial verbiage is distinctly Trumpian. Second, I think Trump, like Hitler, activates latent sentiments that are largely kept at bay with "normal" post-WWII world leader politics. I think it's anomalous and once we get out of it things will normalize. But reall…

Yeah, I emotionally disagreed with this article, because I like the Culture, mostly. That being said, it's possible that AI is helping here. Mind you, given the sycophancy of current models, it's also possible that commanders are making worse decisions based on the results of these AI outputs. Finally, if the US manage to get what they want without completely destroying the balance of power in the Middle East or send…

I think it's safe to say that whatever products the military is using are vastly different from what's available to and designed for everyday consumers. DARPA may be past its heyday and certainly the private sector has caught up in a lot of ways but I don't doubt for a second that they have been investing heavily in weaponizing AI for some time.

Re: I'm Getting a Whiff of Iain Banks' Culture

#50

Post by jrowen »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #33

I think the author is making a mistake assigning the seemingly new competence of the US military to AI, rather than noticing that the US has spent the last half-century or so picking the kinds of fights we absolutely suck at. Force projection, targeted aerial strikes, intelligence gathering, and a nuclear deterrent play to the US miltary's strengths. Convincing the people who we just whacked the leaders of to like us…

It's just the sad truth that these things are motivated first and foremost by violence and aggression towards other people. We're a little more civilized than some but really no different from any other bloodthirsty maniacs. There's just no need to be expending significant resources on killing people in other countries. Politicians run on platforms of fixing things at home and then do this shit. It's insane.
Post reply on HN