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Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

theguardian.com

41–50 of 220 posts

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#41

This whole situation made me realize that the mechanism for holding presidents accountable for campaign promises really doesn’t exist. None of this is what people voted for, and is almost directly the opposite. That isn’t a new thing, of course, but this seems like a pretty huge turnaround from what the campaign was about. This seems like a fundamental problem with the system to me. If you can’t count on the candidat…

Pretty big assumption you're making, that you know what people voted for.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#42

This whole situation made me realize that the mechanism for holding presidents accountable for campaign promises really doesn’t exist. None of this is what people voted for, and is almost directly the opposite. That isn’t a new thing, of course, but this seems like a pretty huge turnaround from what the campaign was about. This seems like a fundamental problem with the system to me. If you can’t count on the candidat…

The US needs a parliamentary system. Trump would have been dumped already. Instead we have to wait 3 more years to end this insanity.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#43

Price of a nation disagreeing from turning its people into lowly peasants of the Global Liberal Borg (TM)'s and not accepting its "assigned" role of satrap-y. In contrast, look at the ignominious history in India (-n subcontinent) over the past millennia - whose moron elites are so deluded that they end up selling even more Anglo-American colonization in the name of decolonization. Fascinating evolution of these two…

Tell me: is the US supposed to stand idly by while the Iranian regime develops nuclear weapons? They pursue nuclear weapons of their own volition, by the way. There are paranuclear states and nuclear threshold states which have not pursued nuclear weapons and have delivered on providing for their people in every manner in which a human society needs. So what does Iran hope to achieve that diplomacy cannot? At what po…

There was a deal, Trump cancelled. There were negotiations where the Iranian regime actually made big concessions. But, Trump administration was not interested in concessions and started a war with no real reason.

> At what point does it turn from a "disagreement" to a credible existential threat that an adversary cannot ignore?

It was not nearly this point. This was a point where USA, Israel and Saudi perceived Iran as weak and easier target. That is why the war started.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#44

Price of a nation disagreeing from turning its people into lowly peasants of the Global Liberal Borg (TM)'s and not accepting its "assigned" role of satrap-y. In contrast, look at the ignominious history in India (-n subcontinent) over the past millennia - whose moron elites are so deluded that they end up selling even more Anglo-American colonization in the name of decolonization. Fascinating evolution of these two…

Tell me: is the US supposed to stand idly by while the Iranian regime develops nuclear weapons? They pursue nuclear weapons of their own volition, by the way. There are paranuclear states and nuclear threshold states which have not pursued nuclear weapons and have delivered on providing for their people in every manner in which a human society needs. So what does Iran hope to achieve that diplomacy cannot? At what po…

It was trump who killed off the original agreement. The IAEA was content with the way the inspections went, Trump just once again talked out of his ass.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me: is the US supposed to stand idly by while the Iranian regime develops nuclear weapons? They pursue nuclear weapons of their own volition, by the way. There are paranuclear states and nuclear threshold states which have not pursued nuclear weapons and have delivered on providing for their people in every manner in which a human society needs. So what does Iran hope to achieve that diplomacy cannot? At what po…

USA and Israel have brought this upon themselves. After decades of regime change operations in the region (usually for the worse), it is clear that any state that doesn't pursue nuclear weapons isn't really an independent state. Do you know who doesn't get regime-changed? North Korea.

North Korea has the backing of the US' two most powerful adversaries, it was not a free pass.

The US can deploy a carrier strike group faster than any nation can build a nuclear weapon. And after seeing the hellfire unleashed on Iran, it is clear that pursuing nuclear weapons may not be the answer it once appeared to be.

Meanwhile, the so-called vassal states of the US - some of the richest countries on Earth mind you - haven't bothered to deploy nuclear weapons because we have no use for them.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#46
post #41

This whole situation made me realize that the mechanism for holding presidents accountable for campaign promises really doesn’t exist. None of this is what people voted for, and is almost directly the opposite. That isn’t a new thing, of course, but this seems like a pretty huge turnaround from what the campaign was about. This seems like a fundamental problem with the system to me. If you can’t count on the candidat…

Pretty big assumption you're making, that you know what people voted for.

I’d be glad to see evidence that people voted for interventions in the Middle East, if you have any.

My impression is that a key part of Trump’s campaign was ending excessive foreign wars. There are lots of clips going around with him saying this.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#47
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europe" is not following the US in this.

in what Europe are you living sorry? The only one outspoken against the war have been the Spanish. UK, Italy and Germany are on it - offering logistical support and everything the US needs.

UK is bossed around by the US, ever since WW2. We don't have many choices that don't involve the USA inflicting revenge. They're bullies

It's like criticising an abused wife with no job no money and not many friends for not just leaving immediately, and the husband is rich, powerful and knows everyone

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#48

Crude oil is over $100/barrel now, affecting almost everyone everywhere.

There's no off ramp whatsoever for both Iran, and Israel and the USA. This will trigger a global recession, everything is about to get much more expensive.

Absolute disaster, all to fill up the coffers of American oil companies...

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA and Israel have brought this upon themselves. After decades of regime change operations in the region (usually for the worse), it is clear that any state that doesn't pursue nuclear weapons isn't really an independent state. Do you know who doesn't get regime-changed? North Korea.

North Korea has the backing of the US' two most powerful adversaries, it was not a free pass. The US can deploy a carrier strike group faster than any nation can build a nuclear weapon. And after seeing the hellfire unleashed on Iran, it is clear that pursuing nuclear weapons may not be the answer it once appeared to be. Meanwhile, the so-called vassal states of the US - some of the richest countries on Earth mind yo…

Man, it seems much more like "must have" thing than it did just 2 years ago. And at that point it seemed more "must have" thing than it did 5 years ago. Trump does not mind nuclear proliferation anyway. If you pay Kushner enough, chances are they will even sell you a nuke.

> Meanwhile, the so-called vassal states of the US

I haven't seen that expression at all, ever. No one was called those state vasal states a year ago. And now, as fascists are in American government, it is becoming routine amount right wing. The logic seems to be that any former ally that does not start war with USA is a vassal or something.

> haven't bothered to deploy nuclear weapons because we have no use for them.

French recently announced change of doctrine, they will expand nuclear arsenal.

Re: Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed

#50
post #38

I was wondering today how many people will develop cancer in a few years because of this. Why must Israel be so duplicitous? It is exhausting.

It all started with the war in Gaza. We, the West collectively, with the exception of only a few European states like Spain and Ireland, allowed them to perpetrate war crimes, which were rarely met with criticism, let alone consequences.

To me it started with the war in Iraq. Made up story as excuse, expensive disaster as a result.

(Afghanistan was already not great, the Taliban were open to extradict Bin Laden, they just demanded proof first, but it was still sort of a international coordinated action.)

That broke the dam. Why should russia care about international law, if the US does not? When you are superpower number one, you lead by example. For better or worse.

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