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My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

ddmckinnon.com

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Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#41

Post by purrcat259 »

650 wrote: post #6

Meta, and other large companies have been encouraging PMs to code, while I've seen many negative responses from engineers having to code review, debug, deal with production issues, etc. stemming from crappy code they don't understand. Metrics and KPIs are being gamed into stupid incentives like lines of code, commits, and tickets closed. Leadership claims they are aware of Goodhart's Law, but their actions show other…

An easy correction is to only merge PRs from folks who are on the on call rota.

Those not on rota can either join or have their PR receive heavy scrutiny

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#44

Post by coffeefirst »

ef2k wrote: post #14

My hot take: the dedicated PM role is becoming optional. Engineers already understand feasibility and tradeoffs, and they often end up informing the PM anyway, which usually comes at the cost of meetings and slow decisions. With clear quarterly goals, engineering and design can own product together. They would shape scope, ship in increments, measure, and iterate. So the "product" function still exists, but its not a…

So… I can do it all. Product manage, code, lead a team, even be my own designer in a pinch.

But that’s far too much work and context switching for one person. Someone will try, but the reason you tend to build teams of specialists is to let people focus even when they can do lots of different things.

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#45

Post by bitwize »

Bridged7756 wrote: post #33

Our job is done for. We will be shown the door, and everyone will rejoice. Everyone will live in a happy world where you'll doddle a house and Claude will build you a next generation SaaS that makes you millions. Managers will do the job of engineers, by just telling LLMs to make an app or to make money or something. C-suites will have agents doing the jobs of managers, and CEOs will run entire companies with a Claud…

> by just telling LLMs to make an app or to make money or something.

Again, that is literally OpenAI's business model: burn money building ChatGPT until it's smart enough to tell them how to be profitable.

"That's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em."

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#46

Post by deathanatos »

brumar wrote: post #43

I get that "landing a prod diff" means "get stuff in production"? I never read this before. Is this slang unique to meta?

Nor do I know what an "eval" is, or which of the no less than three different deacronymings of "PM" (that I know of, thus far) FB uses or what that role would mean to them.

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#47

Post by whateveracct »

krater23 wrote: post #35
ef2k wrote: post #14

My hot take: the dedicated PM role is becoming optional. Engineers already understand feasibility and tradeoffs, and they often end up informing the PM anyway, which usually comes at the cost of meetings and slow decisions. With clear quarterly goals, engineering and design can own product together. They would shape scope, ship in increments, measure, and iterate. So the "product" function still exists, but its not a…

As a developer, I don't see the PM as a boss or planner. It's the guy that handles the communication with all the people that don't understand what I say and ensures that they don't annoy me. A PM is not optional when you want to have developers that have time to code and don't get distracted by thirty people that all want something else and all ASAP.

exactly - a PM's job is to sail the high seas of wherever you sit in the org chart and general corporate political landscape.

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#48

Post by tehlike »

Bridged7756 wrote: post #33

Our job is done for. We will be shown the door, and everyone will rejoice. Everyone will live in a happy world where you'll doddle a house and Claude will build you a next generation SaaS that makes you millions. Managers will do the job of engineers, by just telling LLMs to make an app or to make money or something. C-suites will have agents doing the jobs of managers, and CEOs will run entire companies with a Claud…

can't tell if you are serious or not.

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#49

Post by NitpickLawyer »

WhiteOwlLion wrote: post #7
aurareturn wrote: post #3

I think technical PMs or product oriented developers are the future most valuable people.

You make a better product if you plan it out first. That’s part of a PM’s job so it’s natural fit when the ai does the coding. The code may not be ideal but it’ll have the structure you can improve on.

> You make a better product if you plan it out first.

Maybe. Maybe not. Sometimes you have to see it to understand what's wrong / how can it be improved. It's one of the actual benefits of pre-religious agile - have something in front of your sponsor ASAP, adapt to their feedback. This loop can be made faster, but you'll still need some expertise at every level. Just not so many bodies.

Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs

#50

Post by operatingthetan »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #38
ef2k wrote: post #14

My hot take: the dedicated PM role is becoming optional. Engineers already understand feasibility and tradeoffs, and they often end up informing the PM anyway, which usually comes at the cost of meetings and slow decisions. With clear quarterly goals, engineering and design can own product together. They would shape scope, ship in increments, measure, and iterate. So the "product" function still exists, but its not a…

My hotter take: All 3 of the engineer, PM and designer will all assume the other 2 are optional, in reality all 3 and the entire company they work for will be optional in most cases.

You just need one of them. It's probably the engineer.
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