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Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

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Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#41

Post by blissofbeing »

guylhem wrote: post #39
blissofbeing wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being happy isn't a selfish goal, in fact buddhism looks at this as a non-selfish goal. Buddhism totally advocates for happiness[1], it is only your perception that happiness is selfish that is in error. [1] http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_believe_that_the_very_purp... "“I believe that the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness." -Dali Lama

The quest of being happy is a selfish quest. Selfishness is a good thing to me. Helping other (altruism) is also a good thing - since it serves your own selfishness (makes you more happy to see people happy - especially if you made them happy). The only limit is the damage it may cause them (ex: encouraging sloth) The only bad thing is sacrifice - sacrificing the others or even worse, yourself, is very rarely a good…

From what I have read, and what I would also argue, buddhism makes the point that increasing your own happiness it is not a selfish thing because when you are happy those around you are more prone to also become happy. Like if you are happy and smile at someone and then it makes them happy.

So while maybe it could be argued becoming happy is selfish, actually being happy is not selfish. But then again becoming anything is selfish, I think the point is what happens after the point of becoming that thing. There is a lot of this logic in buddhism, which is why more importance is usually given to your volition for doing something than what it actually is your doing (think karma).

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#42

Post by klibertp »

lutze wrote: post #25
Mordor wrote: post #11

They should test the Dalai Lama too, and unmask the truth.

They should test starving African war orphans to see if meditation helps with their happiness too, or if it's only rich entitled assholes who really really don't know what the fuck unhappiness is if the best they can come up with is being "disillusioned" by a bunch of bourgeoisie painters. Oops sorry, my cynicism slipped out a bit there. Let me just tuck that back in!

Because these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_monasticism#Monastic_l... are "rich entitled assholes", right? Nice.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#43

Post by Itaxpica »

rd108 wrote: post #2

You can actually use these electrical signatures to make meditation a trackable, quantifiable "exercise activity". Just like you log running miles with, say, RunKeeper. Really cool to see more people getting excited about it the science! Disclaimer: cofounder at a startup doing this.

Mind talking a little bit about the technology that you're using and how it's worked out for you? I've been running EEG studies for years, and those small headband-type readers are notorious for being so finnicky as to be almost useless, especially since they have no way of controlling for eye motion. I've never seen a decent setup for anything less than 5-10 grand, and even then they need Ag-AgCl electrodes with conductive gel, which it looks like you've managed to avoid.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#44

Post by antihero »

guylhem wrote: post #39
blissofbeing wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being happy isn't a selfish goal, in fact buddhism looks at this as a non-selfish goal. Buddhism totally advocates for happiness[1], it is only your perception that happiness is selfish that is in error. [1] http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_believe_that_the_very_purp... "“I believe that the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness." -Dali Lama

The quest of being happy is a selfish quest. Selfishness is a good thing to me. Helping other (altruism) is also a good thing - since it serves your own selfishness (makes you more happy to see people happy - especially if you made them happy). The only limit is the damage it may cause them (ex: encouraging sloth) The only bad thing is sacrifice - sacrificing the others or even worse, yourself, is very rarely a good…

What about when your selfishness is at a cost to others?

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#45

Post by danielwozniak »

blissofbeing wrote: post #41
guylhem wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quest of being happy is a selfish quest. Selfishness is a good thing to me. Helping other (altruism) is also a good thing - since it serves your own selfishness (makes you more happy to see people happy - especially if you made them happy). The only limit is the damage it may cause them (ex: encouraging sloth) The only bad thing is sacrifice - sacrificing the others or even worse, yourself, is very rarely a good…

From what I have read, and what I would also argue, buddhism makes the point that increasing your own happiness it is not a selfish thing because when you are happy those around you are more prone to also become happy. Like if you are happy and smile at someone and then it makes them happy. So while maybe it could be argued becoming happy is selfish, actually being happy is not selfish. But then again becoming anythi…

guylhem and blissofbeing both make very good points here. We can take into consideration the motivation behind the wish to be happy. It reminds me of a story I read while studying. I'm going to paraphrase here so please forgive any mistakes.

There was a man traveling down a road while it was raining. He came across a statue of Lord Buddha. He thought to himself, "The Buddha is getting all wet, that is not right. I shall cover his head so he doesn't get wet". He took off his shoe and put it over the Buddha's head.

Now, in those days (and even today in many parts of Asia) the act of putting something from your feet onto a Buddha's head is very disgraceful. In Thailand people don't even let their toes point at a statue of Buddha. Many people would think that man did something very wrong. However, his motivation was to protect Buddha and that single act was the eventual cause for himself to become a Buddha.

I am no expert and am just repeating what I have read elsewhere. Hopefully I did not mess the story up to bad and someone will still benefit.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#46

Post by danielwozniak »

lutze wrote: post #25
Mordor wrote: post #11

They should test the Dalai Lama too, and unmask the truth.

They should test starving African war orphans to see if meditation helps with their happiness too, or if it's only rich entitled assholes who really really don't know what the fuck unhappiness is if the best they can come up with is being "disillusioned" by a bunch of bourgeoisie painters. Oops sorry, my cynicism slipped out a bit there. Let me just tuck that back in!

I have traveled in some very, very poor places. I have met people that live without four walls and a roof. Literally, these people only have three walls! The interesting thing is while their lives are full of hardship and suffering, many of them are also very happy and joyous. It seems to me they are much happier then many very privileged people. It is all relative.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#47

Post by guylhem »

antihero wrote: post #44
guylhem wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quest of being happy is a selfish quest. Selfishness is a good thing to me. Helping other (altruism) is also a good thing - since it serves your own selfishness (makes you more happy to see people happy - especially if you made them happy). The only limit is the damage it may cause them (ex: encouraging sloth) The only bad thing is sacrifice - sacrificing the others or even worse, yourself, is very rarely a good…

What about when your selfishness is at a cost to others?

Is the cost direct or indirect?

If it is direct, it means you are sacrificing others. It is not a good thing as said above. You can find happiness and be selfish in various ways that will not directly harm others.

In Atlas Shrugged, refusal to remain a part of the system is just this (John Galt, the gulch) - trying to find one's happiness, without directly causing damage to others.

The whole society may be less happy due to the refusal of a few to sacrifice, but it is an indirect damage, an indirect cost. The alternative would be their sacrifice - a direct damage.

IMHO no man is entitled to happiness at the direct expanse of others.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#48

Post by rd108 »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #5
rd108 wrote: post #2

You can actually use these electrical signatures to make meditation a trackable, quantifiable "exercise activity". Just like you log running miles with, say, RunKeeper. Really cool to see more people getting excited about it the science! Disclaimer: cofounder at a startup doing this.

Sorry if others don't like this but can you elaborate either by pointing me at your startup, with more science or both? I'm going to go on a Google spree but I'm curious about your take. This is completely foreign to me, it fails my bs test but to hear not just the words scientific, but quantifiable, piques my interest.

Of course, and thank you for reaching out! My previous (pre-startup) job was to do neuroimaging of mindfulness on longterm practitioners in the lab of Sara Lazar. You can check out some of their publications to get going--> http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~lazar/

Our startup is bringing those findings from the lab onto our mobile phone (check out www.brainbot.me for some info, although admittedly not much yet!) Right now we're busy prototyping and working on our first release.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#49

Post by rd108 »

Itaxpica wrote: post #43
rd108 wrote: post #2

You can actually use these electrical signatures to make meditation a trackable, quantifiable "exercise activity". Just like you log running miles with, say, RunKeeper. Really cool to see more people getting excited about it the science! Disclaimer: cofounder at a startup doing this.

Mind talking a little bit about the technology that you're using and how it's worked out for you? I've been running EEG studies for years, and those small headband-type readers are notorious for being so finnicky as to be almost useless, especially since they have no way of controlling for eye motion. I've never seen a decent setup for anything less than 5-10 grand, and even then they need Ag-AgCl electrodes with con…

Thanks Itaxpica. I come from an academic cognitive neuro background too and shared a lot of your concerns. We've shown empirically that you can use an active (non-gel) EEG system to do limited things. We are interested in mindfulness and meditation, which often involves sitting still and closing your eyes. These facts make it easier to use our detection algorithms successfully than it might in other realms. Check out neurosky, emotiv, interaxon and other folks to see products in the space--> still in its infancy, but we're practically seeing results for our narrow focus, which is meditation.

Re: Buddhist monk's brain produces highest reported level of gamma waves

#50

Post by rd108 »

emperorcezar wrote: post #18
rd108 wrote: post #2

You can actually use these electrical signatures to make meditation a trackable, quantifiable "exercise activity". Just like you log running miles with, say, RunKeeper. Really cool to see more people getting excited about it the science! Disclaimer: cofounder at a startup doing this.

Does your app only work on a smart phone, or can it work on a macbook?

For now, it'll run on the mobile phone only. We're working to make it available on all devices, though. That won't happen for at least a year.
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