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How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

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41–50 of 66 posts

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#41
post #2

I would disagree with the initial premise that it's about the pursuit of "perfect sound reproduction". There's many people who do that, but that's not what the audiophile world really has become. It's about a bunch of hand waving and big checkbook spending to impress other audiophiles. Oddly, that describes a lot of "hobbies". Nobody who feels that a $4,000 power cable is important has any semblance of sanity remaini…

"Nobody who feels that a $4,000 power cable is important has any semblance of sanity remaining."

This line of argument is one of the most common attacks against the 'irrational snake-oil' that audiophiles purchase. Yet, I have to disagree. Its not that I believe that a $4k power cord has any/significant technical advantage over a $4 power cord. You used the words 'feels' and 'important'. The feeling of listening to a $4k power cord is clearly internal and subjective as is the determination of its importance. If the listener 'feels' that the $4k cord makes a difference, makes the experience better, then it has value to them and I think that they certainly have the freedom to assign how much importance it has. If audio is your passion, then perhaps there is real value, if perhaps only symbolically, to devoting large sums of cash to it in tribute. In my experience, audiophiles aren't simply gullible rich guys mindlessly blowing money on $4k power cords. Many have very deep relationships with music and with their stereo equipment. This relationship is often complex and rich enough that spending large amounts of money on a new 'X' would almost be like purchasing your wife a gold bracelet. Almost.

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#42
post #2

I would disagree with the initial premise that it's about the pursuit of "perfect sound reproduction". There's many people who do that, but that's not what the audiophile world really has become. It's about a bunch of hand waving and big checkbook spending to impress other audiophiles. Oddly, that describes a lot of "hobbies". Nobody who feels that a $4,000 power cable is important has any semblance of sanity remaini…

"Nobody who feels that a $4,000 power cable is important has any semblance of sanity remaining." This line of argument is one of the most common attacks against the 'irrational snake-oil' that audiophiles purchase. Yet, I have to disagree. Its not that I believe that a $4k power cord has any/significant technical advantage over a $4 power cord. You used the words 'feels' and 'important'. The feeling of listening to a…

A $4000 placebo effect is often worth it.

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#43
post #33

By the time most people could afford any of this equipment their hearing has probably degraded to such a point that they can only hear 12kHz to 14kHz anyway. Although unscientific, I played some tones on youtube in the office and the twenty somethings could hear almost 20kHz and the forty somethings couldn't hear anything by the time the frequency sweep was just below 15kHz.

Depends on how the video's audio was compressed and what you were playing it on.

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#44
post #2

I would disagree with the initial premise that it's about the pursuit of "perfect sound reproduction". There's many people who do that, but that's not what the audiophile world really has become. It's about a bunch of hand waving and big checkbook spending to impress other audiophiles. Oddly, that describes a lot of "hobbies". Nobody who feels that a $4,000 power cable is important has any semblance of sanity remaini…

I have a $2500 setup so I may not be a sane voice on this issue, but I honestly think part of it (the mid-range?) is partly about setting up an environment in which "just" actively listening to music is acceptable (as opposed to watching TV or a movie).

I think that's something that's misunderstood by a lot of people. When actively listening to music without other distractions, the distortion in low-end systems becomes very apparent and detracts from the experience.

When listening to music in the background and while doing other things (cleaning the house, cooking, driving, socializing with others, working out at the gym, etc), distortion is easily lost in other background noises (and you're not paying as much attention to it anyway). For a lot of people, I think this is the only way they ever listen to music, and so it's understandable why they wouldn't see the value in higher quality components.

For someone like yourself, who will actively listen to music without other distractions, it makes sense to spend a few thousand dollars for a better experience. With more expensive systems, I think you start to see diminishing returns. (But I'm not as dismissive as other commenters in saying that there's no difference.)

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#45
You know, blind testing is a really nice mind hack. For instance, I've discovered that I can't tell the difference between two brands of tea I liked, one of which is cheaper and easier to find.

This is a huge win! I haven't lost Refinement Points because I don't need to buy fancy tea. But I have gained money and convenience.

If you're an audiophile, wine lover, or anyone else who spends a lot for quality that "others can't appreciate", I humbly suggest that you put yourself to a test. If you pass, your sophisticated taste is validated. If you fail, you can spend a lot less money and be content knowing you're getting just as good an experience.

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#46
If working in the audio industry and studying the topic at university has taught me anything about audiophilia, then that would be the fact that audiophiles tend to fail to take room acoustics seriously.

Realistically, any half decent source and amplifier will introduce practically no distortion compared to what the combination of the speaker (and placement) and the listening room introduce. The only thing that makes loudspeakers viable really is our uncanny ability to make sense of room acoustical distortions. Thus, we can sense the true sound even though it has been mangled by echos, reverberations and room modes.

However, we can still hear the distortion--and much more so than the comparatively small distortions introduced by sources, amplifiers or cables.

The thing is, if you really want some stellar sound from your home stereo, it does not make much sense to spend more than a couple thousand bucks on audio equipment without significantly improving your room acoustics. A $1000 sound system in a good room will always outperform any system in a bad room. So if you really want to improve your sound, you should probably look into room acoustical measures.

I have heard some > $40k sound systems in purpose-built rooms. The result is really amazing. If you close your eyes, even a trained ear will have difficulties discerning the recording from the original. In one recording studio, they had a $100k sound system. However, they also had a room to match it: The room was physically decoupled from the outside world (the whole room was standing on rubber feet, so to speak), it had special double windows, a purpose-built air conditioning and above all, loads of sound absorbing material and architecture.

And frankly, if you really are serious about sound quality, this is the kind of effort you have to make in order to get there. Spending the same money on more expensive speakers won't help.

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#47
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that way for a long time too - but ultimately I think the limited/artificial soundstage with headphones has to hold them back a bit, in the realm of merely "very good" rather than "nearly perfect". My headphone rig objectively sounds better than my speaker rig, but the speakers ultimately sound more natural, even if by objective measurements (e.g. frequency response) they're markedly inferior. (Neither rig…

You can fix the soundstage somewhat using an xfeed filter. It's simplistic, but does help move the soundstage out from inside your head to being perceived more in front. It's pretty easy to set this up for most software sources, sadly not typically supported by hardware players or phones.

Am I crazy for actively preferring the inside-the-head soundstage? It's one of the main reasons I've switched to using headphones even when speakers would be more convenient.

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#48
The premise of "perfect sound" is almost antithetical to the current state of the audiophile world. Some of the most expensive, well reviewed "audiophile" systems have worse specs than your run of the mill, mid-fi system. Heck, look at the obsession with vinyl, no matter which way you look at it, no matter how much superstition you have, the simple fact is that it has poorer fidelity than a CD. That "magic" quality that makes vinyl sound better than digital? Distortion. Albeit a quite pleasing distortion, but a distortion non the less. Plain and simple.

The world of audiophile gear is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. The human ear, just like the human eye, is.. well, rather poor. We have a very small spectrum in which we operate. So these magazines like stereophile will plop an osciliscope onto the latest piece of gear and marvel over the fact that it's flat from 0 to a kazillion and then talk about its "creamy, refined mids." Someone please kill me.

Audiophile USB cables, audiophile mode-correcting rocks, audiophile amps with .00000000000001% THD, that damn marker to color your CDs with? All hooey. I once read in a forum an anecdote about a guy switching from Monster, to some other overpriced cable and being able to tell the difference from a room away. This was not a tongue in cheek post.

The big problem is that this stuff is eerily close to religion. A bulk of the hard-core, $7000 CD player audiophiles I know are actually rather well educated -- engineers of one type or another, but they slip into cognitive dissonance when it comes to anything relating to audio. A phrase uttered far too frequently is "You can't measure what I'm hearing." Once that mindset is adopted, confirmation bias is king. Here's a $4k pear audio cable. It'll increase the air in the high end by around 15%.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/audio-designline-bl...

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#49
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who spends far too much money on 20+ years old cars, I think I have to agree with you. Being an audiophile is a bit like being a car enthusiast: there really is nothing rational about spending so much money on something that most people don't see the value of, something that is so subjective that you can't explain it to them. I think in the end, it's more about the joy you get out of the idea of being able…

At least you could tell the difference between a cheap car and an expensive car in a blind test.

> At least you could tell the difference between a cheap car and an expensive car in a blind test.

If I show my car to people, most of them don't see a 'modern classic', a 'rare limited edition', a 'real drivers car' or a 'high performance vehicle' with 'upgraded specifications'. They just see a re-sprayed 20-year old clunker without satnav, double airbags or cupholders ;-)

Re: How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bs2b crossfeed plugin is pretty good for that purpose: http://bs2b.sourceforge.net/ I'm using it on Linux (alsa) for my in-ear-phones. From /etc/asound.conf: pcm.crossfeed { type plug slave.pcm "ladspa" } pcm.ladspa { type ladspa slave.pcm "plughw:0,1"; path "/usr/lib/ladspa"; plugins [ { label bs2b input { controls [ 700 4 ] } } ] }

One of the best crossfeeds is the VST plugin hdphx from Refined Audiometrics Laboratory. They don't offer it anymore on the original site but you can still find it. I am sure crossfeeds built into an amp are better but for a software solution it sounds the best to my ears.

Well, the xfeed filter is really only trying to mimick the way the far ear can hear more energy from a speaker at frequencies low enough that the head doesn't shadow it. So it doesn't need to be a particularly complex filter. Trying to make the correction curve too detailed will likely just result in clearly heard artifacts.
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