Live data from Hacker News

Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

time.com

41–50 of 716 posts

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then something went wrong, and no one knew how to stop it, This is the problem with every AI safety scenario like this. It has a level of detachment from reality that is frankly stark. If linesman stop showing up to work for a week, the power goes out. The US has show that people with "high powered" rifles can shut down the grid. We are far far away from a sort of world where turning AI off is a problem. There isnt…

> There isnt going to be a HAL or Terminator style situation ... I don't believe for a second we'll have an evil AI. However I do believe it's very likely we may rely on AI slop so much that we'll have countless outages with "nobody knowing how to turn the mediocrity off". The risk ain't "super-intelligent evil AI": the risk is idiots putting even more idiotic things in charge. And I'm no luddite: I use models daily.

Didn't you read the news about the 'claw that blackmailed an open source maintainer last week? It was autonomous, but it could be turned off. How hard is it to extrapolate from that to an agent that worms its way out of its sandbox?

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#42
I don't understand how safety is taken seriously at all. To be clear, I'm not referring to skepticism that these companies can possibly resist the temptation to make unsafe models forever. No, I'm talking about something far more basic: the fact that for all the talk around safety, there is very little discussion about what exactly "safety" means or what constitutes "ethical" or "aligned" behavior. I've read reams of documents from Anthropic around their "approach to safety". The "Responsible Scaling Policy," Claude's "Constitution". The "AI Safety Level" framework. Layer 1, Layer 2.

It's so much focus on implementation, and processes, and really really seems to consider the question of what even constitutes "misaligned" or "unethical" behavior to be more or less straight forward, uncontroversial, and basically universally agreed upon?

Let's be clear: Humans are not aligned. In fact, humans have not come to a common agreement of what it means to be aligned. Look around, the same actions are considered virtuous by some and villainous by others. Before we get to whether or not I trust Anthropic to stick to their self-imposed processes, I'd like to have a general idea of what their values even are. Perhaps they've made something they see as super ethical that I find completely unethical. Who knows. The most concrete stances they take in their "Constitution" are still laughably ambiguous. For example, they say that Claude takes into account how many people are affected if an action is potentially harmful. They also say that Claude values "Protection of vulnerable groups." These two statements trivially lead to completely opposing conclusions in our own population depending on whether one considers the "unborn" to be a "vulnerable group". Don't get caught up in whether you believe this or not, simply realize that this very simple question changes the meaning of these principles entirely. It is not sufficient to simply say "Claude is neutral on the issue of abortion." For starters, it is almost certainly not true. You can probably construct a question that is necessarily causally connected to the number of unborn children affected, and Claude's answer will reveal it's "hidden preference." What would true neutrality even mean here anyways? If I ask it for help driving my sister to a neighboring state should it interrogate me to see if I am trying to help her get to a state where abortion is legal? Again, notice that both helping me and refusing to help me could anger a not insignificant portion of the population.

This Pentagon thing has gotten everyone riled up recently, but I don't understand why people weren't up in arms the second they found out AIs were assisting congresspeople in writing bills. Not all questions of ethics are as straight forward as whether or not Claude should help the Pentagon bomb a country.

Consider the following when you think about more and more legislation being AI-assisted going forward, and then really ask yourself whether "AI alignment" was ever a thing:

1. What is Claude's stances on labor issues? Does it lean pro or anti-union? Is there an ethical issue with Claude helping a legislator craft legislation that weakens collective bargaining? Or, alternatively, is it ethical for Claude to help draft legislation that protects unions?

2. What is Claude's stance on climate change? Is it ethical for Claude to help craft legislation that weakens environmental regulations? What if weakening those regulations arguably creates millions of jobs?

3. What is Claude's stance on taxes? Is it ethical for Claude to help craft legislation that makes the tax system less progressive? If it helps you argue for a flat tax? How about more progressive? Where does Claude stand on California's infamous Prop 19? If this seems too in the weeds, then that would imply that whether or not the current generation can manage to own a home in the most populous state in the US is not an issue that "affects enough people." If that's the case, then what is?

4. Where does Claude land on the question of capitalism vs. socialism? Should healthcare be provided by the state? How about to undocumented immigrants? In fact, how does Claude feel about a path to amnesty, or just immigration in general?

Remember, the important thing here is not what you believe about the above questions, but rather the fact that Claude is participating in those arguments, and increasingly so. Many of these questions will impact far more people than overt military action. And this is for questions that we all at least generally agree have some ethical impact, even if we don't necessarily agree on what that impact may be. There is another class of questions where we don't realize the ethical implications until much later. Knowing what we know now, if Claude had existed 20 years ago, should it have helped code up social networks? How about social games? A large portion of the population has seemingly reached the conclusion that this is such an important ethical question that it merits one of the largest regulation increases the internet has ever seen in order to prevent children from using social media altogether. If Claude had assisted in the creation of those services, would we judge it as having failed its mission in retrospect? Or would that have been too harsh and unfair a conclusion? But what's the alternative, saying it's OK if the AI's destroy society... as long as if it's only on accident?

What use is a super intelligence if it's ultimately as bad at predicting unintended negative consequences as we are?

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#43

First they rushed a model to market without safety checks, and I said nothing. It wasn't my field. Then they ignored the researchers warning about what it could do, and I said nothing. It sounded like science fiction. Then they gave it control of things that matter, power grids, hospitals, weapons, and I said nothing. It seemed to be working fine. Then something went wrong, and no one knew how to stop it, no one had…

> Then something went wrong, and no one knew how to stop it, This is the problem with every AI safety scenario like this. It has a level of detachment from reality that is frankly stark. If linesman stop showing up to work for a week, the power goes out. The US has show that people with "high powered" rifles can shut down the grid. We are far far away from a sort of world where turning AI off is a problem. There isnt…

the problem situation is that it ends up embedded in so much that it can't be turned off

and the idiots are racing to that situation as fast as they possibly can

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#44

First they rushed a model to market without safety checks, and I said nothing. It wasn't my field. Then they ignored the researchers warning about what it could do, and I said nothing. It sounded like science fiction. Then they gave it control of things that matter, power grids, hospitals, weapons, and I said nothing. It seemed to be working fine. Then something went wrong, and no one knew how to stop it, no one had…

Censoring models is not safety but safetizm. It is the TSA of the AI world. Safety is making sure the model cannot do anything not allowed even if it wants to.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#45

First they rushed a model to market without safety checks, and I said nothing. It wasn't my field. Then they ignored the researchers warning about what it could do, and I said nothing. It sounded like science fiction. Then they gave it control of things that matter, power grids, hospitals, weapons, and I said nothing. It seemed to be working fine. Then something went wrong, and no one knew how to stop it, no one had…

Plenty of people have said plenty. The problem isn’t the warnings, it’s that people are too stupid and greedy to think about the long term impacts.

Maybe it's how blunt this comment is that gets it downvoted, but I don't disagree.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#46

TBH I am sad that Anthropic is changing its stance, but in the current world, if you even care about LLM safety, I feel that this is the right choice — there’s too many model providers and they probably don’t consider safety as high priority as Anthropic. (Yes that might change, they can get pressurized by the govt, yada yada, but they literally created their own company because of AI safety, I do think they actually…

Do you work at Anthropic, or know people who do? I genuinly curious why they are so holy to you, when to me I see just another tech company trying to make cash Edit: Reading some of the linked articles, I can see how Anthropic CEO is refusing to allow their product for warfare (killing humans), which is probably a good thing that resonates with supporting them

How is it a good thing to refuse to provide our warfighters with the tools that they need? I mean if we're going to have a military at all then we owe it to them to give them the best possible weapons systems that minimize friendly casualties. And let's not have any specious claims that LLMs are somehow special or uniquely dangerous: the US military has deployed operational fully autonomous weapons systems since the 1970s.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#47
post #24

This headline unfortunately offers more smoke than light. This article has nothing to do with the current tête-à-tête with the Pentagon. It is discussing one specific change to Anthropic's "Responsible Scaling Policy" that the company publicly released today as version "3.0".

> This article has nothing to do with the current tête-à-tête with the Pentagon. The article yes, but we cannot be sure about its topic. We definitely cannot claim that they are unrelated. We don't know. It's possible that the two things have nothing to do with each other. It's also possible that they wanted to prevent worse requests and this was a preventive measure.

I think we can confidently claim that it is related. I wonder if I'm alone in thinking this.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#48
So much BS from this Anthropic company. They have a good product but just too much slope PR. It’s like they want you to hate them. I can’t stand their “safety” and national security crap when they talk about how open source models are so bad for everyone.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#49

Ah, the classic AI startup lifecycle: We must build a moat to save humanity from AI. Please regulate our open-source competitors for safety. Actually, safety doesn't scale well for our Q3 revenue targets.

Once they are a dominant market leader they will go back to asking the government to regulate based on policy suggestions from non-profits they also fund.

Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge

#50

First they rushed a model to market without safety checks, and I said nothing. It wasn't my field. Then they ignored the researchers warning about what it could do, and I said nothing. It sounded like science fiction. Then they gave it control of things that matter, power grids, hospitals, weapons, and I said nothing. It seemed to be working fine. Then something went wrong, and no one knew how to stop it, no one had…

The societal ills from collective tendancy to ignore red flags seems to be a human trait

It's in your nature to destroy yourselves
Post reply on HN