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ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

reuters.com

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Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#41

Post by zozbot234 »

seanalltogether wrote: post #24
et1337 wrote: post #3

This video is a really cool dive into EUV for the uninitiated (me) https://youtu.be/MiUHjLxm3V0?si=kEPSicC2WXYhcQ6L

The thing I didn't understand after watching that video was why you need such an exotic solution to produce EUV light. We can make lights no problem in the visible spectrum, we can make xray machines easily enough that every doctors office can afford one, what is it specifically about those wavelengths that are so tricky.

There is such a thing as X-ray lithography, but it comes with significant challenges that make it not really worth it compared to EUV.

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#42

Post by merb »

petcat wrote: post #13
onjectic wrote: post #9

> SAN DIEGO, California > to help retain the Dutch company's edge over emerging U.S. and Chinese rivals Great news, but what a strange attempt to equate the U.S. and China in this and build a narrative. Cymer was founded in San Diego.

Yeah it's an interesting angle in the article. The EUV light source technology is completely designed, developed, and manufactured by Cymer in California, which is a US company that ASML acquired in 2013. If export control agreements were not in place then ASML would have never been permitted to acquire Cymer. And if they are not enforced then the US would almost certainly require ASML to sell Cymer back to US owners…

Your take is also a bad one. No what asml builds is not American technology. Why asml succeeded is because they got tons of company’s and people to help them advance the technology of the chip industry. Yes it wouldn’t be possible without the Americans. But it would also not be possible without the Europeans, the Koreans, etc… what asml did was basically ask the technology leaders in each field to build their best product so that they can take their parts and assembly this awesome piece of technology.

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#43

Post by bpavuk »

zozbot234 wrote: post #41
seanalltogether wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I didn't understand after watching that video was why you need such an exotic solution to produce EUV light. We can make lights no problem in the visible spectrum, we can make xray machines easily enough that every doctors office can afford one, what is it specifically about those wavelengths that are so tricky.

There is such a thing as X-ray lithography, but it comes with significant challenges that make it not really worth it compared to EUV.

I'd like to hear more about these challenges

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#44

Post by s0rce »

formerly_proven wrote: post #39
on_the_train wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is the specific wavelength. Higher or lower is easier. But euv has tricky properties which make it feasible for Lithography (although just barely it you have a look at the optics) but hard to produce with high intensities.

Specifically, what makes x-rays easy to generate are these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristic_X-ray In essence, smashing electrons into atoms allows you to ionize the inner shell of an atom and when an electron drops down from an outer shell, the excess energy is shed as high-energy photons. This constrains the energy range of X-ray tubes ("smash electron into metal") to wavelengths well below 13.5nm. (The…

You can also generate broad spectrum bremsstrahlung radiation easily, this is widely used for medical X-rays.

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#45

Post by s0rce »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #29
on_the_train wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is the specific wavelength. Higher or lower is easier. But euv has tricky properties which make it feasible for Lithography (although just barely it you have a look at the optics) but hard to produce with high intensities.

Any source to this? I am hearing this for the first time.

ITs easy to make X-rays, you just hit a metal target with electrons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#46

Post by [deleted] »

seanalltogether wrote: post #24
et1337 wrote: post #3

This video is a really cool dive into EUV for the uninitiated (me) https://youtu.be/MiUHjLxm3V0?si=kEPSicC2WXYhcQ6L

The thing I didn't understand after watching that video was why you need such an exotic solution to produce EUV light. We can make lights no problem in the visible spectrum, we can make xray machines easily enough that every doctors office can afford one, what is it specifically about those wavelengths that are so tricky.

[deleted]

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#47

Post by kristjansson »

Hikikomori wrote: post #20
eddyg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or this video, which came out before Veritasium's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2482h_TNwg

https://youtu.be/NGFhc8R_uO4 Or this presentation which came out way long ago.

This is worth the (re)watch every time it comes up.

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#48

Post by magicalhippo »

bpavuk wrote: post #43
zozbot234 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such a thing as X-ray lithography, but it comes with significant challenges that make it not really worth it compared to EUV.

I'd like to hear more about these challenges

As I understand it, primarly because due to the high energy level of x-rays, light x-ray interacts very differently with materials[1]. Primarily they get absorbed, so very difficult to make mirrors or lenses, which are crucial for litography to redirect and focus the light on a specific miniscule point on the wafer.

The primary method is to rely grazing angle reflection, but that per definition only allows you a tiny deflection at a time, nothing like a parabolic mirror or whatnot.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#49

Post by EnPissant »

eddyg wrote: post #17
et1337 wrote: post #3

This video is a really cool dive into EUV for the uninitiated (me) https://youtu.be/MiUHjLxm3V0?si=kEPSicC2WXYhcQ6L

Or this video, which came out before Veritasium's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2482h_TNwg

I thought this video was a lot better than the Veritasium video. The Veritasium video was awkward. I think they tried to follow the formula from the (excellent) blue led video that performed so well, but it just didn't work.

Re: ASML unveils EUV light source advance that could yield 50% more chips by 2030

#50

Post by hobofan »

hinkley wrote: post #15
et1337 wrote: post #3

This video is a really cool dive into EUV for the uninitiated (me) https://youtu.be/MiUHjLxm3V0?si=kEPSicC2WXYhcQ6L

Okay this is weird. > The key advancements in Monday's disclosure involved doubling the number of tin drops to about 100,000 every second, and shaping them into plasma using two smaller laser bursts, as opposed to today's machines that use a single shaping burst. This is covered in that video. Did they let him leak their Q1 plans?

That has been covered before in other videos[0] that this is their roadmap to higher power, so I'm also not sure what they have announced now that wasn't previously announced.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXnrzS3aGeM

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