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VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

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Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#41

Post by cogman10 »

taneq wrote: post #36
sagyam wrote: post #17

First report for Donut lab battery is out. Here is the TLDR Specs 26 Ah nominal capacity at 1C discharge rate 94 Wh nominal energy with 3.6V nominal voltage Operates within 2.7V – 4.15V recommended range (max charging to 4.3V) What was verified 5C charging (130A): 0-80% in ~9.5 minutes, 0-100% in ~13.5 minutes 11C charging (286A): 0-80% in ~4.9 minutes, 0-100% in ~7.3 minutes Successfully delivered 98.4-99.6% of char…

It’s good to know that it does at least perform about as well as current conventional batteries. The energy density and cycle life were the really off-the-wall claims. It’s exciting to hear that they’re continuing to test, can’t wait for more third party results! Edit: Reading the report, they talk about “charge capacity” (Amp hours in/out) efficiency of 98.4% to 99.6%, but this seems potentially misleading. The actu…

Yup, those 2 are the ones I really want to see.

The energy density isn't out of line if this is a true solid state battery. The cycle life, though, is AFAIK. I don't believe solid states have that sort of cycle life.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#42

Post by doikor »

mrtksn wrote: post #4

Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland" The people listed on this report appear to be on LinkedIn, so I guess it will be easy to confirm if the test document is authentic. The announcement of the test: https://youtu.be/d2QU_LpkSPs Hopefully, soon we will find out if this seemingly "too good…

> Apparently the first 3rd party test was on fast charging and the 3rd party is VTT, which is the government affiliated(owned?) "VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland"

It is a govenrment owned non-profit company.

As one of its services it will independently verify your product/invention/whatever works as claimed (for a bunch of money).

https://www.vttresearch.com/en

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#43

Post by hipsdontlie »

pavlov wrote: post #32

The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible rumors that they’ve been simultaneously raising money by cold-calling moderately wealthy people around the country. (Finland has extremely little oversight for private fundraising; you can basically sell shares in your zero-revenue startup to grandma next door —…

It's disappointing that this merry band of serial scammers are tarnishing Finland's reputation.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#44

Post by xienze »

taneq wrote: post #29
xienze wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's not independent verification that the device tested actually _is_ a solid state battery. Just that whatever was tested had certain charging characteristics.

Tbh the exciting part isn’t so much the composition but whether it can actually meet the claimed performance. It could be made of wet gym socks for all I care if it can do 100k charge cycles at 90degC with comparable energy density and specific power to LiFePO.

But that’s the point I’m making. You’re taking the claims that Donut Labs is making about it being a new type of battery at face value. Having someone verify charging characteristics isn’t that helpful without simultaneously verifying that the battery actually is what they’re claiming.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#45

Post by stetrain »

mech998877 wrote: post #14

The massive amount of production-oriented research in solid state and semi solid state batteries indicates to me that this stuff is coming soon in a big way. I've been curious about buying an electric car recently, and if I buy one right now it would only be a used one, don't want to fully invest in something about to be obselete.

The whole industry is always working on improved batteries. But it's a long road from lab-scale to mass production, and often improvements in one area have downsides in another.

New generations of cells that improve energy density usually start out more expensive than existing chemistries, so they show up at the high end of the market first and work their way down.

If we do get truly improved solid-state batteries available in EVs in the next 5 years, it will likely start at the high end of the market and work its way down over many years to cheaper segments as production capacity ramps up. The base model EVs aren't going to suddenly have their batteries swapped out with ones that are twice as good for the same price.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#46

Post by doikor »

pavlov wrote: post #32

The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible rumors that they’ve been simultaneously raising money by cold-calling moderately wealthy people around the country. (Finland has extremely little oversight for private fundraising; you can basically sell shares in your zero-revenue startup to grandma next door —…

The electric motorbike company (Verge Motorcycles) owned by the same people also has such bad accounting/paperwork that they could not find an auditor willing to give an opinion.

https://yle.fi/a/74-20205916 (article in Finnish)

"According to the auditor's report, no opinion was given on the company's financial statements because sufficient audit evidence was not available."

The company claims to have a couple million in inventory but no system saying anything about what is in their inventory, 300k in revenue in Finland without any papertrail of it actually happening, 2.5 million in R&D without any explanation/papertrail on what it was spent on (salaries? materials? machines?), etc.

Also the company has taken really expensive loans from family members of the leadership (12% interest which is way over the market rate).

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#47

Post by jusssi »

hipsdontlie wrote: post #43
pavlov wrote: post #32

The weirdest tech story in Finland right now. The founders have sketchy track records. They do a carefully managed social media build-up. There are credible rumors that they’ve been simultaneously raising money by cold-calling moderately wealthy people around the country. (Finland has extremely little oversight for private fundraising; you can basically sell shares in your zero-revenue startup to grandma next door —…

It's disappointing that this merry band of serial scammers are tarnishing Finland's reputation.

It's also a bit sus that someone creates an account just to bash them, when they themselves are already doing a great job to make it look like a scam.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#48

Post by mrtksn »

hipsdontlie wrote: post #35
mrtksn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says its sign by this guy: https://www.vttresearch.com/en/news-and-ideas/petri-soderena... He has an e-mail address and a phone number, I doubt that if the report is falsified it won't come out.

I just found a video of the same guy selling some magical AGI thing 9 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 Promising the moon and stars just like with Donut. Donut Labs also had a video presentation of some kind of automotive design software that also sounded too good to be true. This guy is a serial scammer.

Elon Musk sells self driving cars since 10 years that don't self drive but his cars are actually decent cars and his rockets are revolutionary. Also, who isn't selling magical AGI since the last 4 years?

I think i will judge the battery and the magical AGI separately. The guy also sells magical motors that appear to be real with people riding motorbikes with those motors.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#49

Post by fhdkweig »

yomismoaqui wrote: post #34
fhdkweig wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make the same argument when I buy a computer. If I just wait a little longer, there will be a faster cheaper version of what I can buy today. When buying anything that depreciates, the best strategy is to wait (possibly forever) and only buy when you really need it now.

Until you wait too much and end in a RAM shortage period due to AI...

My limited understanding of RAM prices are that they are very cyclical. Very expensive followed by very cheap. You just have to be willing to wait.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#50

Post by mrtksn »

hipsdontlie wrote: post #30

Here's the CEO Marko Lehtimäki selling his magic AGI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 :D He's been a busy beaver!

I don't know about that, the last 4 years everyone is selling magical AI and AGI is around the corner. Including every single top 10 rich people.

Was this AI proven to be any more fake Than Sam Altman, Elon Musk or Dario Amodei's one? Did he took similar level of money and delivered less than the promised?

What's the scam exactly? They don't seem to claim AGI anyway, they say Artificial Super intelligence which is like every AI company claim.

You seem to be on a mission against this CEO, maybe you can clarify a bit more about the scams you believe he is committing?

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