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CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

koreaherald.com

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Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#41

Post by qup »

delecti wrote: post #7
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but this is how the market is supposed to work. If the incumbents aren't doing what their customers want, then competitors can rise and fill the gap and compete. This isn't a shortcoming, it's a competitive market working as intended.

The market doing what it's supposed to do does not negate that the market segment has only been left open because of overly myopic businesses.

Why would we think businesses will always make the right move?

They'll blunder. They'll do it even harder in the absence of competition.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#42

Post by joe_mamba »

PearlRiver wrote: post #33
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but this is how the market is supposed to work. If the incumbents aren't doing what their customers want, then competitors can rise and fill the gap and compete. This isn't a shortcoming, it's a competitive market working as intended.

Everyone gets mad when Chinese do capitalism...

NO you see, we have to hate Chinese companies because they are unfair competitors since they get state funding from the Chinese government, unlike Intel, Micron, TSMC, ASML, Samsung who don't get state funding from the US, EU, Taiwan, ROK ... oh wait.

Scratch that, we have to hate Chinese companies because they do business with the Chinese military, unlike Intel, Nvidia, Samsung who don't do business with the US and ROK military ... oh wait.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#43

Post by zozbot234 »

mrweasel wrote: post #3

This feels like a classic business blunder. Focus hard on a single business segment, leaving an opening in the market for your competitors. Not because it wasn't profitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough for you, right now. Only downside is that now you've created an opening for a new player in the market. This feels like a short coming of western business/stock market thinking. Focusing on profit within th…

It's not really a blunder though. Given that total capacity is tightly constrained, Samsung and SK Hynix are happy to focus on what they do at their best and with the highest margins. Why shouldn't they supply the HBM market?

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#44

Post by maxglute »

someperson wrote: post #4

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

How's it dumping below cost when hey can simply sell for 100% margins instead of western makers selling for 400%.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#46

Post by kvemkon »

fulafel wrote: post #31

Has DDR5 caught up to DDR4 latency yet? I remember it was worse at least in the beginning. There's more bandwidth per channel but a hw design can always add more channels for the desired BW. Not so for latency.

> add more channels

and unfortunately increase latency even more with registered DIMMs. Comparing bandwidth increase (50 GB/s) to the stagnated latency (~80..120 ns total, less than ~0.1 GB/s) over last decades, I'm wondering, whether one still can call today's RAM random memory (though sure it can be accessed randomly). Similar to hard disk drives. Up to 300 MB/s sequentially but only up to less than 1 MB/s 4KB random (read).

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#47

Post by wrsh07 »

nutjob2 wrote: post #8

This is good news. The price you pay for jacking up your prices is losing market share. Once established, the Chinese vendors will retain most the market share if the quality is ok. The SK/JP vendors are making a big mistake.

It's not clear that raising your prices to match the supply/demand curve is a mistake

They will compete on price if they are forced to, but they aren't forced to right now

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#48

Post by kvemkon »

xadhominemx wrote: post #23
ErneX wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really adding capacity?

Yes of course. Looking at the share prices of their suppliers— ASML, Lam Research, Applied Materials, etc.

But since when? There are public announcements about new energy deals since summer 2024. But I'm missing any information about similar RAM/NAND/HDD deals back then, so that corresponding shortages could be only for short time until, say, summer 2026.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#49

Post by shimman »

maxglute wrote: post #44
someperson wrote: post #4

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

How's it dumping below cost when hey can simply sell for 100% margins instead of western makers selling for 400%.

Because only western companies are allowed to make massive profits at the expense of entire nations, it's not greed when they do it apparently.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#50

Post by sophrosyne42 »

mrweasel wrote: post #3

This feels like a classic business blunder. Focus hard on a single business segment, leaving an opening in the market for your competitors. Not because it wasn't profitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough for you, right now. Only downside is that now you've created an opening for a new player in the market. This feels like a short coming of western business/stock market thinking. Focusing on profit within th…

There is really nothing about the stock market that means only thinking about the mext few quarters. See all the losses on the profit and loss statements of AI tech giants, or, say, game console companies? Why are their stocks still valued so highly during these periods? The answer: investors are thinking long term.

It is really impossible to have quality long term thinking without capitalization accounting and similar instruments that come out of the "wester" system of business that chinese free enterprise gladly and speedily copied when it was made free.

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