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Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

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Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#41

Post by weli »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #31

Exercise, therapy, and antidepressants have all been shown to have similar effect sizes for depression. It seems like some people take that to mean that therapy and antidepressants are pointless but unless there's some reason to think that the effects are mutually exclusive, a more reasonable interpretation is probably that it's good to try to do all of these things if possible if you are depressed.

The problem is that people who are depressed often don't have the energy to change their lifestyle to start exercise, which requires significant effort.

That's why psychiatrists will suggest antidepressants or Electroconvulsive therapy (in extreme cases of depression) because clients are unable to help themselves.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#42

Post by arethuza »

taneq wrote: post #36
arethuza wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what is one unit of exercise" Based on my own recent experience I would suggest the "dog".

Addendum: if not a dog person, may I suggest ‘motorcycle’ as an alternative?

This chap certainly recommends it for his worries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S83zwxkNio8

Edit: A motorcycle that is, unless someone has created 200mph dogs...

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#43

Post by duskdozer »

iammjm wrote: post #26

lets get concrete with "Exercise": what is one unit of exercise? like exactly what type of movement, at what intensity and duration should be performed how frequently to be as effective as therapy? like should i run every day at 160bmp for 20 minutes? whats the minimum effective dose?

However much exercise the smug person suggesting it as a depression cure gets.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#44

Post by jaapz »

magicalhippo wrote: post #37
Sharlin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that depression by definition makes it 100x harder to do any of those things.

In my case it wasn't that they were hard to do, it was more that I just didn't have the motivation to do them. The change needed was to actually have a reason to start doing any of them. For me, that started with being honest with myself. Deep down inside I knew the reason for my depression, I "just" had to be honest about it to be able to take control over it. Once I did that I gained some motivation to do those thi…

I was typing something a bit snarky, but I went back and thought a little and I just want to say good for you on getting out of that hole and I hope you stay out of it!

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#45

Post by basisword »

joe_mamba wrote: post #3

How to solve most cases of depression, make sure to get all these (if you can): - good diet with no junk food, alcohol, drugs and stimulants - regular exercise and outdoor time - good sleep hygiene - regular healthy social interactions - eliminate environmental stressors (job/financial stress, relationship stress, noise pollution, etc) Of course, not everyone can have everything and some of those aren't 100% under yo…

Every time this comes up the comments are the same. Just don't eat crap, just go to the gym, just make sure you get good sleep. It shows a total lack of understanding of depression. Of course these things work - and if people weren't depressed they might be able to try and do them. But when you have severe depression you literally have zero motivation. None. You suddenly can't sleep. You can barely get yourself out of bed. That's why things like pills are useful because they can help you get to the point where you can take the steps necessary to get your life into a state where it's less conducive to depression.

>> ultimately it becomes your responsibility to try fix them if you want your situation to improve, since nobody else will.

No. This is why doctors and psychologists etc exist. Not everything is fixable by you. Sometimes you need help from other people and blaming the depressed person for being depressed is fucking idiotic.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#46

Post by weatherlite »

staticassertion wrote: post #12
joe_mamba wrote: post #3

How to solve most cases of depression, make sure to get all these (if you can): - good diet with no junk food, alcohol, drugs and stimulants - regular exercise and outdoor time - good sleep hygiene - regular healthy social interactions - eliminate environmental stressors (job/financial stress, relationship stress, noise pollution, etc) Of course, not everyone can have everything and some of those aren't 100% under yo…

I think this is true, but oof that's a heavy list. For one thing, food, alcohol, drugs, and stimulants, all have addictive properties that are almost certainly comorbid with depression. Dropping those is rough. Exercise is perhaps one of the easier ones but, personally, I've found it incredible to reflect on how absolutely bad my childhood "gym" classes were. At no point did we actually... go to a gym. That was never…

> At no point did we actually... go to a gym

You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it , or do something "hard" that many people dislike like running. You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week (which is the recommended dose, and which 80% of Americans and other Westerners don't meet). That is time outside (vitamin D) + moving your entire body - less chronic pain, better joints, better bones etc. I think even this alone without resistance training (which is important) could be enough to help most people with morbidities and depression. Our machine is simply not meant to remain stationary all day and be bombarded with social media and TV, there's no wonder neurosis is off the charts.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#47

Post by nasir »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #31

Exercise, therapy, and antidepressants have all been shown to have similar effect sizes for depression. It seems like some people take that to mean that therapy and antidepressants are pointless but unless there's some reason to think that the effects are mutually exclusive, a more reasonable interpretation is probably that it's good to try to do all of these things if possible if you are depressed.

Mens sana in corpore sano

Taking the antidepressant has become the dominant go to approach as it is more commercially profitable for the seller and easier to commit to for the taker.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#48

Post by randusername »

joe_mamba wrote: post #3

How to solve most cases of depression, make sure to get all these (if you can): - good diet with no junk food, alcohol, drugs and stimulants - regular exercise and outdoor time - good sleep hygiene - regular healthy social interactions - eliminate environmental stressors (job/financial stress, relationship stress, noise pollution, etc) Of course, not everyone can have everything and some of those aren't 100% under yo…

> How to solve most cases of depression

Tread carefully friend, I agree this is a good list to _prevent_ the most common forms of depression, but some will think you are framing major clinical depression as a personal failing.

Some people slide into a hole of their own making. Others get thrown into the abyss by external factors. Grief, trauma, abuse, crises of repressed identity, poverty and poor prospects. Life can be brutal.

I highly, highly recommend The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression (Solomon) for anyone that is interested in a comprehensive view of depression.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#49

Post by joe_mamba »

weatherlite wrote: post #46
staticassertion wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true, but oof that's a heavy list. For one thing, food, alcohol, drugs, and stimulants, all have addictive properties that are almost certainly comorbid with depression. Dropping those is rough. Exercise is perhaps one of the easier ones but, personally, I've found it incredible to reflect on how absolutely bad my childhood "gym" classes were. At no point did we actually... go to a gym. That was never…

> At no point did we actually... go to a gym You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it , or do something "hard" that many people dislike like running. You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week (which is the recommended dose, and which 80% of Americans and other Westerners don't meet). That is time outside (vitamin D) + moving your entire body - less chronic pain, better joints, better bones e…

>You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it ... You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week

I don't like flossing and brushing my teeth either, but yet I still do it regularly. In fact, I never met anyone who brushes they teeth out of enjoyment, but out of habit.

Similarly, the habit of exercise(and other health related activities) needs to be cultivated, you don't have to like it, you just do it because it's what's best for you.

If you take no accountability over your own actions and agency and expect life is about doing only the things you enjoy, then no amount of SSRIs or expensive therapy sessions will fix this.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#50

Post by spiffytech »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #31

Exercise, therapy, and antidepressants have all been shown to have similar effect sizes for depression. It seems like some people take that to mean that therapy and antidepressants are pointless but unless there's some reason to think that the effects are mutually exclusive, a more reasonable interpretation is probably that it's good to try to do all of these things if possible if you are depressed.

And while they affect a similar percentage of people, they don't necessarily affect the same individuals. Same for therapy modalities, which often show similar efficacy in studies, but different efficacy for any given person.

So you've got to try different things and figure out what works for you.

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