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European Tech Alternatives

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Re: European Tech Alternatives

#41

Post by michelb »

ph4rsikal wrote: post #29

Over the last 20 years, Europe has become irrelevant. There is not a single European LLM on the same level as US or Chinese models. France's Mistral reached 400M in revenue, but I believe it could have been more relevant if the EU had not slowed everything down with overregulation.

We have been overly reliant on non-European partners we could trust and rely on. That is now gone. So right now is a good opportunity for Europe to focus inward. Imagine having all the social benefits AND tech. We also need to make sure keep malignant actors like the USA & Russia at bay. One can dream.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#42

Post by redrove »

budududuroiu wrote: post #20
redrove wrote: post #2

“Tech alternatives” yet a good portion of the companies I randomly clicked on are software services/outsourcing, especially on the eastern side. Show me a European iPhone, European Microsoft, European Nvidia, etc. Hell, I’ll take a European one man company that can reach all 27 markets. Europe needs a single market for capital and the removal of legal barriers to extend across the continent, foremost for the little g…

Realistically, what you're asking for won't happen unless there's a strong push for Federalisation. Unfortunately, most Eastern Bloc countries are led into the false belief that the EU is encroaching on their ways of life and "making them eat ze bugs", and the Brussels elite is more concerned with using their slim remaining political capital to push restrictions on internet freedoms rather than federalisation.

Yes, precisely. Going federal is the only viable l, unified, way ahead.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#43

Post by anonymous908213 »

ph4rsikal wrote: post #29

Over the last 20 years, Europe has become irrelevant. There is not a single European LLM on the same level as US or Chinese models. France's Mistral reached 400M in revenue, but I believe it could have been more relevant if the EU had not slowed everything down with overregulation.

Why does Europe need to dump hundreds of billions of dollars into developing a chatbot that will never be able to pay off its debts? Mistral seems like a much more practical and sustainable approach to LLM development than centering the entire economy around a pyramid scheme predicated on selling the belief that AGI is always three months away.

China's LLM development relative to resources spent is impressive, but it also happened to be predicated on Chinese miners buying into the previous pyramid scheme and having a lot of GPUs on hand already. I don't think the lack of European commitment to the previous pyramid scheme putting it a bit behind in that regard indicates any kind of grand regional failure, so much as an event of pure circumstance that probably has little lasting meaning 5 or 10 years from now.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#44

Post by perbu »

ph4rsikal wrote: post #29

Over the last 20 years, Europe has become irrelevant. There is not a single European LLM on the same level as US or Chinese models. France's Mistral reached 400M in revenue, but I believe it could have been more relevant if the EU had not slowed everything down with overregulation.

I’ve raised money here and there. Never really had issues with the EU regulations.

But the lack of risk capital and investor brainpower has been a huge problem.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#46

Post by redrove »

cyberax wrote: post #22
redrove wrote: post #2

“Tech alternatives” yet a good portion of the companies I randomly clicked on are software services/outsourcing, especially on the eastern side. Show me a European iPhone, European Microsoft, European Nvidia, etc. Hell, I’ll take a European one man company that can reach all 27 markets. Europe needs a single market for capital and the removal of legal barriers to extend across the continent, foremost for the little g…

How about European ASML? > Europe needs a single market for capital and the removal of legal barriers to extend across the continent, foremost for the little guy. ?!? You can trivially sell your software inside the EU. As for software that I use almost daily: OsmAnd. LanguageTool, which is spell-checking this message, is made in Germany. IntelliJ products are made in Czechia, and I'm using them right now.

You can sell products anywhere but you’re battling 27 different sets of rules and legislations. Look at how a burger shop becomes a continent wide franchise overnight and you’ll see how that’s impossible in the EU.

We just lack the regulatory freedom and deep financial markets, access to credit, etc.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#48

Post by 9dev »

redrove wrote: post #34
puchatek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the EU inc initiative attempts to fix the capital aspect

It’s just a shortcut for broken Germany to be able to found a company without a notary and 25000EUR.

That is false. You can absolutely found a company by just getting an entry as a merchant here with neither of the things you listed. If you want to found a limited liability company though, then yes, you need some monetary backing to cover for fuckups (likely the 25k are not fully covering it anyway) and a notary to make it official.

Re: European Tech Alternatives

#49

Post by isodev »

ph4rsikal wrote: post #29

Over the last 20 years, Europe has become irrelevant. There is not a single European LLM on the same level as US or Chinese models. France's Mistral reached 400M in revenue, but I believe it could have been more relevant if the EU had not slowed everything down with overregulation.

That assumes LLMs are relevant and will be around a year from now. Let’s not forget NFTs.

Your comment is also blind to the absurd amount of research and projects which are born here but later move to look for funding.

So the EU is not irrelevant, on the contrary, we’re just mourning the fall of the US and transitioning to an independent future. Who would’ve though, we’d end up needing to build a copy of everything…

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