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America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

governance.fyi

41–50 of 349 posts

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#41
post #39

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

One round of loan forgiveness is fine, but it builds an expectation of it in the future. All of the loans, growing larger and larger, just encourage universities to grow fatter and raise costs to students. If students could not borrow enough to attend, they would be forced to lower costs (not necessarily the very top universities, but all the rest).

It's already unaffordable, enrollment is dropping, and tuition has only continued to go up to offset lower enrollment.

The incentives are not so naively simple

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#42

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

> bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior, Because the taxpayers (and all users of USD) repeatedly bail them out. I could define anything as not being risky if I knew taxpayers would bail it out. More importantly, if there is no risk, what purpose does a bank serve? They’re a pretty bloated middleman if their sole purpose is to update a database to reflect incoming and outgoing cash flow. The government sh…

> Because the taxpayers bail them out. I could define anything as not being risky if I knew taxpayers would bail it out.

I feel like I must be misunderstanding something here because it sounds like you're saying depositing funds in a bank is considered risky behaviour?

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#43
post #15
post #7

Ah, a classic paperclip maximizer. Pension plans got the goal of multiplying the money so pensioners have more of it. Nobody bothered to mention that they should also make sure there's a world the pensioners can live in, so now that gets slowly sacrificed in the pursuit of the only explicitly stated goal

If multiplying money is the goal why does the article say they're doing a worse job of that than just buying index funds? If that claim is true, then clearly there are other issues at play than just that.

Longbets: “Over a ten-year period commencing on January 1, 2008, and ending on December 31, 2017, the S&P 500 will outperform a portfolio of funds of hedge funds, when performance is measured on a basis net of fees, costs and expenses.” - https://longbets.org/362/ (won by Warren Buffett)

Should New York’s $270B pension fund abandon Wall Street? - https://www.semafor.com/article/08/07/2025/new-york-comptrol... - August 7th, 2025 ("Drew Warshaw is running for New York state comptroller, a job most voters would struggle to define but one that includes oversight of the state’s pension fund. If he unseats 18-year incumbent Thomas DiNapoli, Warshaw’s plan is to move much of its nearly $300 billion of investments into ultra-cheap, passive index funds. The New York State and Local Retirement System has more than $90 billion invested in private equity, private credit, real estate, and other complex assets. All promise high returns — catnip for pension managers facing future payouts to retirees — but charge high fees, too. The question facing New York and hundreds of other state and local pension funds, charitable endowments, universities, and government funds around the world: Are these high-priced managers worth the fees they’re charging?")

What Does Nevada’s $35 Billion Fund Manager Do All Day? Nothing - https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-does-nevadas-35-billion-fu... | https://archive.today/ywTFd - October 19th, 2016

The management fees are, broadly speaking, a grift/rake of capital flows and economically inefficient, based on the evidence and the data. The issue at play is that the capital market ecosystem has become a bureaucracy that demands to continue to grow, versus cannibalizing itself in the name of economically efficient capital allocation.

Tangentially, the markets are moving to more trading (24/7/5) versus less because when trades are made, money is made in a Parable of the Broken Window sort of way by the capital market industry.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#44

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

> bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior, Because the taxpayers (and all users of USD) repeatedly bail them out. I could define anything as not being risky if I knew taxpayers would bail it out. More importantly, if there is no risk, what purpose does a bank serve? They’re a pretty bloated middleman if their sole purpose is to update a database to reflect incoming and outgoing cash flow. The government sh…

There has been a lot of discussion about how the basic setup of banks (borrow short, lend long, collect the spread) is probably not a great idea, and we should just separate these two activities (see Money Stuff). People who want to lend long should do that with their own money, and people who just want to save should be able to do that.

But, at least in the US, regulators keep blocking the 1st step: narrow banking. Let banks offer savings accounts that just stick the money in the Fed, zero risk.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#45

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

I disagree about student loans. The entire system needs to be dismantled.

Universities don't care if their majors will result in a job and the student loans are a source of risk-free money.

They need to start taking on the risk of all student loan, not me, the tax payer.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#46

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

> bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior, Because the taxpayers (and all users of USD) repeatedly bail them out. I could define anything as not being risky if I knew taxpayers would bail it out. More importantly, if there is no risk, what purpose does a bank serve? They’re a pretty bloated middleman if their sole purpose is to update a database to reflect incoming and outgoing cash flow. The government sh…

Taxpayers don't bail out bank depositors, the FDIC (which is insurance paid for by the banks) does.

And banks do a lot more than what you described, which I have to assume you know already.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#47

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

> bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior, they are putting cash in a bank

That is risky behavior. You can't earn interest without taking a risk.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#48
post #4

CalPers, the largest public employee retirement system in the US was not getting the kind of returns that they needed. They were restricted from purchasing stocks in certain industries, such as oil, weapons, etc.. However, they recently switched to investing in private equity funds and now they are getting much better returns, without all the pesky moral issues involved with it.

I would not be so sure they are getting better real returns. The mostly made up marks come out infrequently and seem to go down very slowly.

We won't know the return until the investment is over and capital is returned.

This kind of deceit is one of the main services PE funds provide

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#49
post #39

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

One round of loan forgiveness is fine, but it builds an expectation of it in the future. All of the loans, growing larger and larger, just encourage universities to grow fatter and raise costs to students. If students could not borrow enough to attend, they would be forced to lower costs (not necessarily the very top universities, but all the rest).

The student loan system is fucked up, so what should happen is an acknowledgement that it's fucked up, forgiving the fucked up loans, and also changing the system to be less fucked up so it won't have to happen again.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#50

> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public. I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior,…

> bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior

Supposedly intelligent investors leaving money in accounts above FDIC limits ($250k per holder per bank, so $500k for joint account) were engaging in risky laziness.

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